Was this cyclist bad?

[magnatom]

I retract my rather grouchy statement about Magnatom being sanctamonious and superior and apologise for it, written when I was feeling grumpy.

Drat! I was looking forward to refuting that one! No worries mate. I can understand how looking at this video in isolation I could come across that way. However, it is never my intent. I do post my own mistakes when I recognise them and others have been pointed out to me and I have accepted them and tried to learn from them.
I post these videos so that we can all learn from them, including myself. Nothing wrong with people disagreeing with my point of view, it's via debate that we all progress our understanding.

Oh I should also point out that the title of the thread was actually my attempt at a little humour. I was naming the thread in a similar fashion to the recent bus thread. I wouldn't call this cyclist bad, just a little misguided.

On with the debate.......

 

[magnatom]

Mag (if you're still reading after all that) - is that you shaking your head as the other cyclist trickles through the red light in the first 20 seconds or so?

Yes I did shake my head a little. I know how drivers perceive cyclists who flout traffic lights etc and so I hate seeing cyclists pushing through lights when they don't have to. Therefore, I shook my head in a sanctimonious and superior fashion (only teasing crackle )

 

[Amanda P]

Ah. The head-shaking is visible. We needed you to tell us about the sanctimoniousness and superiority of it, as that's hard to detect from the video.

 

[QuickDraw]

... I think undertaking can be very dangerous. The lorry looked as if it was going straight on. Lorry driver thinks, oh wait a minute I'm going to go left here instead and pulls across.

What would have happened here if he didn't see a cyclist coming up the left, either by not looking correctly, or if the cyclist happened to be in a blind spot at the time?

I think if the cyclist had come down there a little later there could have been a serious accident. IMO this justifies my view of filtering down the right wherever possible.

I know the junction very well but that's irrelevant I just want to clarify something:

Are we saying that you can never pass a lorry on the left? In this particular case there are 2 lanes for turning left so it would be less of an issue but are you saying that if there was only one filter lane we should wait until the lorry is out of the way even if we are turning left? If not what's the difference between riding past and then turning left or riding past and then nipping in front?

 

[magnatom]

I know the junction very well but that's irrelevant I just want to clarify something:

Are we saying that you can never pass a lorry on the left? In this particular case there are 2 lanes for turning left so it would be less of an issue but are you saying that if there was only one filter lane we should wait until the lorry is out of the way even if we are turning left? If not what's the difference between riding past and then turning left or riding past and then nipping in front?

Quickdraw, I am talking about filtering down the left within the same lane or very close to the lorry. When the chap appeared at the side of the lorry he was (my guess) less than a metre from it. No time to react if (like it did) the lorry decides to pull over to the left. If you are well within a lane to the left then you have much more room and time to take evasive action so I would suggest filtering in a lane to the left of the lorry would be fine. Of course I would advise caution when doing this. Does this make sense?

 

[Arch]

Yes I did shake my head a little. I know how drivers perceive cyclists who flout traffic lights etc and so I hate seeing cyclists pushing through lights when they don't have to. Therefore, I shook my head in a sanctimonious and superior fashion (only teasing crackle )

I liked the head shaking. You should call the set up your "tut-tut cam"

I often do similar, just to try and make the point that I think someone's acted stupidly, I don't suppose anyone else notices, but it keeps my neck supple...

 

[magnatom]

Mag

After the head shaking you seem to be looking towards the truck driver. Did he clock you?

I looked up when I heard the truck engine rev just before it pulled to the left. I didn't get a good look at the driver at that point and I don't think he was looking at me. Hopefully he was looking in his left hand mirror!

 

[magnatom]

I liked the head shaking. You should call the set up your "tut-tut cam"

I often do similar, just to try and make the point that I think someone's acted stupidly, I don't suppose anyone else notices, but it keeps my neck supple...

Yeah, I do it without really thinking about it. Looks a bit daft on camera though!

 

[Cab]

No you're right I don't think he did but I'd pull short of calling it 'bad' cycling. If the lorry had squished him, it would have been the lorries fault but all of us know that going up the inside of a lorry is potentially dangerous. Equally cycling that close to the kerb leaves him few options should somehting make him swerve or similiar.

If he hadn't made some kind of contact with the lorry driver, then I'd call it bad cycling. Its needlessly increasing his risk by, I suspect, orders of magnitude (i.e. from almost none to pretty much measurable). Ditto for cycling so close to the kerb but, alas, so many cyclists and motorists think thats the default position that its quite hard to get a more sensible message across.

Moving forward of the white stop line is forgivable in my view, if it's done in the right circumstances. When I last commuted on a bike there were few advance stop zones for bikes and i would often filter ahead and then turn and make eye contact with the driver behind me but I did admit earlier that I do not and have not commuted in a city in some time and am aware that things change.

I'd say that its really only forgiveable as an emergency, or near emergency measure. Usually with a little forethought you can pick out a safe place to stop short of the line, but the best of us can misjudge things and find ourselves stuck at the front with little option but to pick a safe spot over the line. That said, such should be an extremely rare thing to happen.

Now, that guy could have stopped before the line, and even if he'd made a mistake and ended up erroneously too far forward he didn't have to go so very far out in front. Its not about safety there, he's simply not of the opinion that he should be concerned with stopping at red lights.

And, for me, its that behaviour that singles him out as a bad cyclist. Its that sheer contempt for the law shown by some cyclists that gets us all a bad rep.

 

[QuickDraw]

Quickdraw, I am talking about filtering down the left within the same lane or very close to the lorry. When the chap appeared at the side of the lorry he was (my guess) less than a metre from it. No time to react if (like it did) the lorry decides to pull over to the left. If you are well within a lane to the left then you have much more room and time to take evasive action so I would suggest filtering in a lane to the left of the lorry would be fine. Of course I would advise caution when doing this. Does this make sense?

Perfect sense.

I was just checking cos I've no way of knowing how far away he was from the lorry as he filtered. I thought maybe he stayed in the filter lane and then just juked in at the last moment. Given your description I agree, not the most dangerous thing ever but certainly too risky for me. That junction is bad enough on a bike without making it worse. Same goes for going over the line, although it just seems like an extension of the ASL idea headng into Crow Road with two lanes of traffic on your back and having just "skipped" the queue is never going to increase your safety.

 

[magnatom]

Perfect sense.

I was just checking cos I've no way of knowing how far away he was from the lorry as he filtered. I thought maybe he stayed in the filter lane and then just juked in at the last moment. Given your description I agree, not the most dangerous thing ever but certainly too risky for me. That junction is bad enough on a bike without making it worse. Same goes for going over the line, although it just seems like an extension of the ASL idea headng into Crow Road with two lanes of traffic on your back and having just "skipped" the queue is never going to increase your safety.

It is a crazy junction, but I must admit I love cycling through it. If you time the lights right coming down from Bearsden Road you can fly through this junction at a fair speed. I love the look that drivers give me when I keep up with them across the junction and I give them a wee smile!

 

[Crackle]

Magnatom: I'll see if I can find another post to pick on you for: Hmmm....... now about that paramedic guy...

Cab: I think I already said he'd gone too far forward, we're agreed on that but as far as I'm concerned that's the only bad thing he did. The other things may not have been the best tactics but they don't comprise bad cycling in my view.

I don't see going forward of the stop line as an emergency measure, I see it as an option. We cyclists are not cars, a safe option is not always strictly legal. Coming up the inside of a line of traffic demands you judge the situation and examine your options.

Have you ever stopped at a green light? I have. I had to cross a very big wide flyover type junction every day. One day there was a howling headwind. As I approached the lights I knew that I would go across on green, I knew normally I'd make it, even though it was the end of the phase. Against the headwind I had no chance and stopped at the green light. Every situation demands a different analysis, even if it's the same situation, as the circumstances might be entirely different on a bike from day to day and most drivers just won't appreciate that.

 

[Arch]

Have you ever stopped at a green light? I have.

Yes, so have I, when I know I won't be able to make a right turn across oncoming traffic until the next phase change. But since a green light only means 'go if it is safe to do so', that's not illegal. Whereas crossing a stop line after a red (infact, after an amber, unless you can't stop in time) is...

 

[BentMikey]

Cab: I think I already said he'd gone too far forward, we're agreed on that but as far as I'm concerned that's the only bad thing he did. The other things may not have been the best tactics but they don't comprise bad cycling in my view.

OK, how about answering in a different way? Apart from going past the line, did the cyclist cycle well?

I don't see going forward of the stop line as an emergency measure, I see it as an option. We cyclists are not cars, a safe option is not always strictly legal. Coming up the inside of a line of traffic demands you judge the situation and examine your options.

I think it's both illegal and unnecessary nearly all of the time when I observe cyclists doing it. The only times I've ever felt I needed to go ahead of the line is when I did some filtering and wasn't able to get far enough in front of a large vehicle for the driver to be able to see me, since there's another large blind spot just in front of most lorrys. Perhaps that's a slight reflection on my filtering though, more than on the need to go in front of the lorry.

 

[Crackle]

OK, how about answering in a different way? Apart from going past the line, did the cyclist cycle well?

Well he didn't weave in and out of the traffic and then pull up directly in front of the car at the front of the queue. He didn't lean on anyones car, didn't abuse anyone, didn't get in anyones way, didn't swear, pick his nose, ride on the pavement. knock a pedestrian down etc.. So in that sense OK so far.

He went up the inside of a truck which later moved - so what, I might have done the same, I might not. He rode down the road on the yellow line, slowly - again so what, that's up to him.

I would give him 7/10 but deduct two for crossing the stop line in a blatant disregard for the rules, so 5/10.

As for crossing the stop line in other circumstances, then explain to me why there are advanced cycle zones and why you use them then - isn't it the same thing.