Cycle lights and traffic lights do not match - is this a good idea?

[Time Waster]

My commute since changing offices involves going past a side road which leads to a large work carpark so there are a lot of cars coming from town side to turn left across the path of a post separated cycle path. At this junction they put in a separate, little cycle lights with red, amber and green cycle symbols. The issue is that this light sequence then becomes a little complex. There is the main road light cycle and the separate but linked cycle light cycle. For example all road lights go red while the cycle light goes green then the road lights go green and the cycle lights red.

This to me seems questionable. Does the cycle light have a legal status? To me it feels like guidance only and you are gouing through the main red light when yiou use the green cycle light. If this makes sense. I have only seen them in the uk and overseas linked to a cycle route crossing a road next to a synced pedestrian lights crossing.

So first thing is whether these cycle lights are legal so I can cycle when green even if the main road light above it is on red? Second is this on or along the road cycle light thing around the country too? Or is it unusual to see cycle lights not crossing a road like a ped crossing but to help cyclists across a busy junction?

Basically I used to just use the road lights at first as I actually missed the cycel lights. When I realised what they were I kind of thought they were oddly out of sequence. Now I use the cycle lights and feel odd when the cars are turning left going around me then every road light goes red and I can go as my lights are on green. I am using them as intended I think but it does feel wrong to me. I guess it is just the new, however I would appreciate the views of more experienced people on this.

 

[Alex321]

The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 Apply, but are not always easy to understand.

The green light for cyclists definitely means you can proceed regardless of the other lights, that is covered by:
(12) Sub-paragraph (13) gives the significance, when illuminated, of the pedal cycle symbol when, by virtue of the variation permitted in paragraph 2, it is included in the traffic light signals provided for at item 1 of the Part 2 sign table.

(13) The significance is that pedal cycles may proceed beyond the stop line and proceed straight on or to the left or to the right irrespective of which other light signals forming part of the sign are illuminated.

As I understand it, if you are in the cycle lane, then the red cycle light has the same meaning as the red main light, i.e. you must stop. If you are in the main roadway, then the main lights apply, rather than the cycle specific lights.

 

[DCLane]

@Alex321 - that's interesting. They've stuck cycle lights all over the new cycle routes in Leeds, meaning it's an almost constant stop-start. Many cyclists just don't bother stopping.

 

[Sterlo]

They put some in on a busy junction here, unfortunately, the cycle light turned green on one side and the main light turned green for traffic turning across them from the other direction. It's a wonder there were no accidents before someone realised and changed them.

 

[mjr]

Those little cycle symbol lights have the same status as the main lights but only apply ta the cycleway. They are worse than "toucan" man+bike lights which are only advisory because you have to stop for red even if there is no other traffic.

They put some in on a busy junction here, unfortunately, the cycle light turned green on one side and the main light turned green for traffic turning across them from the other direction. It's a wonder there were no accidents before someone realised and changed them.

Surprisingly, it is legal for conflicting movements to have green lights simultaneously. It's just almost never done unless one is a right turn across traffic coming straight ahead towards them. Remember, green means that it's legal to go, not that it's clear or safe to go.

 

[fossyant]

There are some on a very busy junction near work - the sequence is slightly different to allow crossing six lanes - I can only think they are there for less experienced cyclists, as the road lights change a little earlier for crossing the 6 lanes - as above it's to avoid the right turning traffic from the other direction (not on a filter - give way), but if you are in the road, you set off at the same time as the cars.

 

[freiston]

They have them here where the cycle lane goes across the light controlled crossroads. The bike lane has it's own two way light sequence, green between the road lane greens. Here you can see the main lanes have green but the cycle lane has red.

When first in operation, it was difficult to cross the junction on green from the bike lane on account of all the motor vehicles going over on amber/red but now this doesn't happen so much - they just fill the junction waiting to turn right then clear it whilst the bike lane has green - not usually a problem except for annoyance.

Worst problem with this cycleway is motor vehicles stationary astride the cycle lane at side road junctions, waiting for the main road to clear so that they can turn onto the main road (further on, this route is by a school and a gated rail crossing - the cycle lane goes under the railway and avoids the gated crossing).

 

[Time Waster]

Thanks. IT is good when there is a lot of traffic but when not it is hard to stay stopped when it is clear to go. I guess I must if they are legally binding. Don't want to be a RLJer, never done it before so won't now.

TBH the cycle way is not really necessary. The road is wide and there is never too much traffic on it. I do not see the need for all the cycleways there. Plus the design of them is not great. Sections on the road separated from cars by plastic posts. Then a dropped kerb and you are on the wide pavement mixed use path with all the ignoring of the side for the pedestrian or cyclist that happens with that design. One time it is on the road segregated by the posts, then it swerves onto the pavement around the bus shelter and along. before stopping next to a pedestrian crossing. That is used to get the cyclist to avoid the wide roundabout when turning right. However you have then to wait for the lights and again around the corner to cross the other lane to rejoin a non segregated path. Most cyclists fo what I do. Carry on the straight on mixed use path then hit a dropped kerb just before the roundabout to join the main car lanes. Move out to the right hand lane and go around the roundabout on the main lane and stgraight into the cycle path on the righthand side road at the roundabout.

I do think that the local council there was trying their best for cyclists but they just messed up here and there. The lights that got me starting this post I can accept as having a safety benefit but I can not accept that the roundabout bypass option is needed. Very few follow that route and I think they are usually stopped at one lights crossing or another while I am already roudn the corner and disappearing into the distance. All done very safely. It is actually a very safe road. Flat, wide and good sightlines. All in a road that is never busy!!

 

[mjr]

It does sound rather like the council have messed up the light timings at the roundabout and prioritized motor traffic at the expense of cycle traffic, which is probably contrary to their official policy but all too common. It might be worth a quick email to Active Travel England describing the location and error if you have time because that should count against the council when the next scorecard is compiled.