Was this cyclist bad?

[nethalus]

Have a look at this video:

The chap makes two mistakes. One which is naughty and really gets him nowhere (this type of RLJing has been described elsewhere on the forum) and another potentially potential fatal mistake.

What do you think?

I see that happen quite a lot, they completely miss the stop line and go way ahead of the red light. I've even seen some lemming cyclists risk dodging through the traffic that has the green light, and for what? To save about 10 seconds or something. Mind you I've seen motor vehicles do it too, which is more dodgey.
At least this one didn't act like a lemming though and did stop. He'd have been a fool to try and dodge between all that lot that came through them lights!!

 

[magnatom]

I see that happen quite a lot, they completely miss the stop line and go way ahead of the red light. I've even seen some lemming cyclists risk dodging through the traffic that has the green light, and for what? To save about 10 seconds or something. Mind you I've seen motor vehicles do it too, which is more dodgey.
At least this one didn't act like a lemming though and did stop. He'd have been a fool to try and dodge between all that lot that came through them lights!!

It is a very busy junction. I actually quite enjoy negotiating it. I've attached a picture of the junction from google earth. My challenge for anyone who doesn't know this junction is to work out how you turn right (west) if you approach the junction from the south! This one catches a lot out!!

There are also two different ways to turn left!

 

[mrben]

Are you allowed to turn right, or do you have to go left first and then around?

Winnah!

 

[nethalus]

It is a very busy junction. I actually quite enjoy negotiating it. I've attached a picture of the junction from google earth. My challenge for anyone who doesn't know this junction is to work out how you turn right (west) if you approach the junction from the south! This one catches a lot out!!

There are also two different ways to turn left!

Do you turn right up a slip road before the junction??

 

[LOGAN 5]

Technically he jumped the lights but he didn't go across the junction. This is a common sight in London and personally I don't think it's wrong - although the police do as they stop cyclists who do this. At least he was visible for all those cars in the queue at the lights and as somebody else mentioned it is like carving your own ASL.

Magnatom, you are obviously a faster cyclist than this individual and I think this sometimes determines positioning. Not all cyclists are fast/fit/confident/on a quick bike and able to take the primary position which everybody goes on about on this forum. It's very noticeable for me when I am on my road bike on the weekends and how I can more easily maintain my road position unlike my experience with impatient and often aggressive London drivers during commuting hours on my slow bike and also now in the dark.

There's a dreadful "race track" at Vauxhall Cross going east and the best and safest way is to join a group of already gathered cyclists ahead of the stop line and go like hell with them across the junction. I reluctantly take this position if I'm alone as I ride a very slow bike in London and it's more tricky to dominate ones lane.

Agree though that undertaking even a stationary lorry with a lane to its left was foolish. Only this morning I hung back in a bus lane to wait for a refuse lorry to trickle pass a left hand turning and for it to actually stop in the queue of traffic before proceeding down the bus lane.

Saw a cyclists in dark clothing and a poor back light last night squeeze himself between a traffic island with a build out and a moving lorry - if he'd put his hand out he could have touched the lorry he was that close. I just cringed watching him.

 

[magnatom]

Winnah!

Yes you need to go left then across a few lanes to get to the far lane to allow you to then proceed west. It is signposted but you still have to be in the right lane all the way round which can take a while to get used to!

 

[magnatom]

Logan 5, I certainly don't have a fast bike! It's a ridgeback cyclone, upgraded a fair bit with lots of extra stuff on it like mudguards, bike lock, 3 lights, attachment for child seat, big thick marathon plus tyres. It isn't designed for speed, but I'll grant you I am one very fit bloke .

Seriously I see your point, but by taking the far left he is in a dangerous position. Yes by being in the middle he would hold more traffic up, although at this particular junction they are leaving a queue to join an even longer queue so it wouldn't make much difference. However, even if he annoyed people behind him he would be safer, which is what really matters. Once past the junction he could either take the route I take, that takes you off the road (which incidentally is what he did) or move over to the secondary position and let the traffic sort itself out.

Of course another solution is to take a different route. There is an argument that if you can't ride safely on a particular route, you shouldn't be there at all. There are alternatives, although a little longer of course.

 

[Cab]

Technically he jumped the lights but he didn't go across the junction. This is a common sight in London and personally I don't think it's wrong - although the police do as they stop cyclists who do this. At least he was visible for all those cars in the queue at the lights and as somebody else mentioned it is like carving your own ASL.

Thing is, theres another cyclist already waiting legally. It just seems quite dreadful to go straight past another cyclist and pick an illegal place to wait. Its bad enough antagonising the motorists that way, it just seems even more obviously unbreasonable to do that when theres another cyclist already at the junction.

And like it or lump it, its the law too. If we're seen constantly breaking the law (and that kind of thing is very visible) then we'll continue to be portrayed as law-breakers unworthy of road space.

Magnatom, you are obviously a faster cyclist than this individual and I think this sometimes determines positioning. Not all cyclists are fast/fit/confident/on a quick bike and able to take the primary position which everybody goes on about on this forum. It's very noticeable for me when I am on my road bike on the weekends and how I can more easily maintain my road position unlike my experience with impatient and often aggressive London drivers during commuting hours on my slow bike and also now in the dark.

You're right of course that the position you take on the road depends on what the road conditions are, how much traffic there is, how fast the traffic is, and not least of all how well you think you can get away. But I'd urge you, even if you think you can't accelerate very quickly from a junction, to try to be assertive. I'm not saying bob about slowly in traffic, I'm saying that even if you're not desperately fast you're still part of the traffic, and you're safest where you're most visible and where passing traffic has to actually overtake you, rather than skim past close and fast.

And at the end of the day, an assertive cyclist in traffic might get a bit more lip, a few more honks, but he's safer than that bloke you've just seen in Magnatoms video, wobbling along on the yellow line.

 

[Bokonon]

I really don't see the point of pushing to the front of traffic queues, you are going to have to stop anyway and it is often easier to start within the queue of traffic (which often moves away more slowly further back) than be bullied by fast accelerating cars at the front of the queue - ASLs can encourage poor behaviour. If it is a very long queue that is going to take several changes of the lights to clear then I would move nearer the front, if safe to do so, but then stop within the queuing traffic in a similar position to that taken by magnatom in the video. I wouldn't have bothered passing the lorry in that instance though, for a number of reasons.

The other cyclist did look like he would have gone straight over the junction if the cross traffic hadn't been there to stop him. It appears to be quite a long junction, he may have felt he was more able to clear the junction safely within the green phase of the lights by starting from his advanced position. He still shouldn't have undertaken the lorry, whatever the circumstances.

 

[magnatom]

I wouldn't have bothered passing the lorry in that instance though, for a number of reasons.

I did consider sitting behind the lorry, and I normally would, but on this occasion the cars behind it were quite tightly packed, the lights had only just gone red and the right hand lane was free allowing me to see that there was a gap in front of the lorry. You will notice when I stop I look directly up at the driver to make sure he has seen me. I look again just as I catch sight of the cyclist (my eyes move further than the camera suggests!!).

 

[BentMikey]

I spotted that it was undertaking the lorry right away! I don't understand why the cyclist felt any need to go over the stop line, it brings him no benefit and potentially makes things worse if he can't see the lights change, as well as irritating drivers.

Logan, I used to think like you, until I was forced to ride at the back of a snake "protecting" other riders pretending to be trainees. It's quite easy to own some road space even if you're riding much slower than you're used to.

 

[magnatom]

I spotted that it was undertaking the lorry right away!

A gold star for BentMikey!

 

[Tynan]

surely that truck is stopped with a car in front of it and if it does pull left it does so from a standing start with an escape route available for the bike?

I'll roll forward at lights but not that far

Lary junction

 

[Crackle]

What about the view that he did nothing wrong:

He undertook a stationery truck at a left filter. Any vehicle moving out to filter left should've looked in his mirror, otherwise he would potentially have hit another vehicle or a ped or a cyclist. As Tynan says, the cyclist had room to move left, plus how do you know he hadn't anticipated such a manouevre. In fact the truck waited until he'd passed ergo he'd seen him - prove otherwise.

He then moves further ahead of the traffic through the red light. As far as I'm concerned nothing wrong with that. It puts him slightly ahead of the cars in a good position to be seen and gives him space to get going. My only negative view on this is that he goes too far and potentially disturbs car drivers going across the junction who may think he might not stop.

He then proceeds away at a position from the kerb which he obviously finds comfortable. Again I would be further away but that's me.

Sorry the only thing in the video that annoyed me was your sanctimonious mutterings and air of superiority.

Edit: Magnatom I apologise for that last comment. That was rude and uncalled for, written when I was feeling grouchy.

 

[BentMikey]

Sorry the only thing in the video that annoyed me was your sanctimonious mutterings and air of superiority.

Surely that says more about your perceptions than it does about Magnatom? I didn't see any sanctimonious anything.