Was this cyclist bad?

[Cab]

Well he didn't weave in and out of the traffic and then pull up directly in front of the car at the front of the queue.

And thats the bit that bothers me about such RLJing

A stop box works because it puts you right in front of the other traffic, where you're most visible, where you can claim a safe road position. To instead crawl past on the kerb and take up another poor road position in frnt of the traffic... Why? What does it gain you? You're not particularly more visible, you're not difficult to overtake dangerously. It just seems like a futile manoevre.

(cut)

As for crossing the stop line in other circumstances, then explain to me why there are advanced cycle zones and why you use them then - isn't it the same thing.

No. Not at all. Not all junctions have the space, nor does a cyclist become safer at all of them by being out in front of the traffic. Ultimately, while there are some junctions that don't have advance boxes that would benefit from one, to invent your own ain't your call when you're on the road.

 

[Crackle]

Ultimately, while there are some junctions that don't have advance boxes that would benefit from one, to invent your own ain't your call when you're on the road.

That's the only bit I don't agree with - Sorry it is my call. The law can't possibly take account of all the circumstances I find myself in, indeed it allows for ambiguity in many areas, though you might have to justify your actions. On the bike it's much more my safety that's on the line more than someone in a vehicle. Here I am all 74Kgs plus bike on a road which is used by cars which are on average 1.5tonnes heavier than me. The law applies to us both equally but we are not equal, therefore I reserve the right to make my own judgement calls, which include transgressing the letter of the law should I need to.

Tell me that you've never done that - ever!

 

[Cab]

That's the only bit I don't agree with - Sorry it is my call. The law can't possibly take account of all the circumstances I find myself in, indeed it allows for ambiguity in many areas, though you might have to justify your actions. On the bike it's much more my safety that's on the line more than someone in a vehicle. Here I am all 74Kgs plus bike on a road which is used by cars which are on average 1.5tonnes heavier than me. The law applies to us both equally but we are not equal, therefore I reserve the right to make my own judgement calls, which include transgressing the letter of the law should I need to.

Tell me that you've never done that - ever!

Oh, I entirely agree that if you've made a mistake and your only safe option is to break the law, then you do what you've got to do. But thats a last resort, its not what happened in this instance. That cyclist had options other than to break the law, and going through a red light should never be your standard way of dealing with any junction.

 

[Tynan]

gawd, we all cycle indifferent environments and in different styles, often for good reason, I'm starting to get tired of the judgemental camp on here that sees it all in black and white

and for the thousandth time, rolling over the stop line is not the same as rlj

other than the distance he goes forward I saw nothing wrong, even starting from there is his call, I see nothing remarkable about it

 

[Cab]

gawd, we all cycle indifferent environments and in different styles, often for good reason, I'm starting to get tired of the judgemental camp on here that sees it all in black and white

If you don't want to read opinions on cycling manoevres, don't read a forum where such things are discussed.

and for the thousandth time, rolling over the stop line is not the same as rlj

For the thousandth time, no one here has said that all red light jumping is the same.

Do I actually need to post the definition of 'straw man' somewhere here so that people stop using them?

other than the distance he goes forward I saw nothing wrong, even starting from there is his call, I see nothing remarkable about it

So gutter crawling and maybe undertaking a lorry rather too close... nothing bad in that at all?

 

[Tynan]

plenty on here seem to think crossing the stopline is rlj, 'going through a red light should never be your standard way of dealing with any junction' - I don;t consider what that cyclist did as 'going through a red light', as best that's ambiguous language

discussing cycling and judging it as wrong based on personal values is far from the same thing, this is everyone's forum not yours

what gutter hugging? there's no gutter inside that truck, that's the right place to be if he's going ahead in my opinion, correct lane and out where the traffic can see him

likewise how close he was or wasn't to that truck, blind side as viewed and he'd have had plenty of room inside that truck, plus the truck had a car in front of it, it wasn't going anywhere

 

[BentMikey]

Do I actually need to post the definition of 'straw man' somewhere here so that people stop using them?

The first one in the queue can be you!

 

[BentMikey]

and for the thousandth time, rolling over the stop line is not the same as rlj

Whilst I agree with you, technically it's still the same offence. Besides, it's illegal, and usually unnecessary.

 

[Crackle]

Well the only new thing I have to add to this is Magnatoms new strap line

______________________________
Magnatom's posts contain no generalisations about other road users but may contain a bit of pontificating and the odd 'tut'

 

[gbb]

Just looking at the clip again Magnatom...
You have the lorry to your left.
To the left of the lorry are two lanes..i assume of course or traffic turning left. Those two lanes have come from somewhere....perhaps he came from that side.

Is it possible the guy came from the left and crossed those two lanes to get to the traffic lights..so didnt strictly ride alongside the lorry. Does that make sense ?

A possibility..we may never know.

The riders actions are not correct according to laid down recommendations...but we all find a way of riding that suits our abilities, inabilities, confidence and 'fear'

Passing the reds...no big deal IMO, so long as its not pure RLJing.
Riding right up to the crossing traffic...naughty. He could easily spook one of those drivers.
Riding too close to the yellow lines...no big deal IMO. The yellows are at the edge of the drains, which are approx 300mm wide. He appears to be riding just beyond the yellows, so say 350 to 400mm from the kerb.
In all the years ive been cycling ive had less problems at that distance than riding ..say 500mm from the kerb.
At that point, you can start causing problems
for the traffic, and i find they will frequently try to squeeze through an even smaller gap...ergo...more danger to me.

Dont get me wrong, ive had close encounters my way...a few. But when you assume a more positive position and a car (or worse, van or lorry) squeezes even more closely to you...its even more daunting and dangerous IMO.

Good practice is fine IF EVERY motorist allows you to do so. The trouble is, they frequently dont. So we all find a way that works in our own experience.


FWIW, i'm 49 years old. Ive been riding for some 35 years on the roads, but have only taken it seriously for the last 6 years or so. Ive learned a lot in those 6 years, (although some of you may think otherwise ) At that point i started to consider myself a cyclist, enthusiast..whatever. You start to ride more, learn more, analyse situations more seriously.

Up until that point, i was just a bloke on a bike..pretty much like the guy in the clip. Didnt know..didnt care much either.

 

[BentMikey]

gbb, if you really believe in that sort of spacing from the kerb, I would recommend getting some lessons from a national standards cycling instructor. I know you're very experienced and it might seem like learning to suck eggs, but I'm sure you'd gain a lot from the experience.

 

[gambatte]

and for the thousandth time, rolling over the stop line is not the same as rlj

No one said its was.

Just makes it hypocritical when we complain about cars crossing the ASLs

 

[gbb]

gbb, if you really believe in that sort of spacing from the kerb, I would recommend getting some lessons from a national standards cycling instructor. I know you're very experienced and it might seem like learning to suck eggs, but I'm sure you'd gain a lot from the experience.

But you dont take into account the remainder of my post...
You are technically absolutely right...but as i said, reality means that drivers will often squeeze through the smaller gap you (i) have left. Thats a reality ive faced many times.. it once led to an incredibly dangerous situation for me.
Country road...i can see an oncoming car. I also know i have a car coming up from behind. Theres scarcely enough room for all of us, so i assumed primary or positive position early..to claim the road, if you will.
Well unfortunately, the car coming up from behind didnt give a damn, and was going through whatever...we all passed within inches, and that car passed me probably within 2 inches at 40mph ish. FFS...what HAVE you got to do to make yourself safe...

The point, as stated earlier, is you are right IF drivers respect your place in the road...but they dont. So you adopt strategies that work for you.

Distance from the kerb. Ive ridden 4000 miles plus with that strategy. Ive had fewer problems, never fallen off cos i got too close...and i still alive and kicking. Concentration concentration....that is a requirement i admit to riding close.

In a way i hate to argue against you who observe the 'correct' methods...you set a good example, which i'm reluctantly shooting down...but my reality has taught me that drivers will not respect your place in the road, so you adapt.

 

[Crackle]

Well unfortunately, the car coming up from behind didnt give a damn, and was going through whatever...we all passed within inches, and that car passed me probably within 2 inches at 40mph ish. FFS...what HAVE you got to do to make yourself safe...

The point, as stated earlier, is you are right IF drivers respect your place in the road...but they dont. So you adopt strategies that work for you.

I'd agree with that gbb. There's no substitute for experience and my experience tells me that facing down a car, even if you are in the right, is not clever; there's a time and a place.

This is what worries me about the National Cycling Standards instructors. We've a few here, teaching the kids to ride, which is a good thing. They must have done the course to get the badge or whatever but most are young and I never see them on a bike i.e they have the theory but not the real world experience. When my kids come to do it I shall monitor closely what they are being taught. Wish I'd done it now, when they were asking for volunteers.

 

[BentMikey]

Really, you guys couldn't be more wrong about that. I think you wouldn't find things as extremely different as you seem to perceive, it all comes down to when and where you need to claim road space. If you're getting passed like that through a pinch point, the chances are you weren't out far enough and/or you didn't look back behind you to communicate with the driver enough.

Being further out then allows you the space to duck left to increase that 2 inches. If you ride where you guys say you ride, then you'll get squeezed like that more often, and you'll also not have any room to manouvre out of the way.

Seriously, I challenge you to take some instruction and report back. I know my own cycling improved as a result, and I thought I was one of the more assertive riders I see.