The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

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R_nger

Guru
I dont doubt the Danes in Copenhagen on their super safe cycle paths chose not to wear a helmet whilst popping down the shops and to work....the same in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. However get off these safe non traffic routes and its a different story...

You should try it....the message is that people have a choice...referring to them as nobbers indicates you aren't giving them the benefit of that choice...

Denmark does not equal Copenhagen. My experiences of Denmark do not include cycle paths or helmets. My experiences of the Netherlands do include the occasional cycle path, but no helmets. So I suggest that your assertion about "safe non traffic routes" (whatever that means !) is false.

Edited for incompetent use of copy and paste in smartphone!
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Some of this lot witnessed a fellow cc'er falling on his head. The consultant treating him said "good job you WEREN'T wearing a helmet or you may have broken your neck."
After the chap in the ambulance car gave him a lecture by the roadside? A lecture he probably doesn't remember because he was just a tad concussed.
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
Gosh I missed a busy day yesterday. It seems we have another picture of a failed helmet and "My mate would be dead if he hadn't worn this malfunctioning piece of kit".

I'm glad the person in question is recovering, as I'm always glad when an injured person recovers.

Out of interest do people wear helmets when on turbos and more crucially on rollers? Rollers scare the beejezus out of me.

Anyway we've had another helmet pic so can we reset the post count to zero please and start again.

Try to keep today quiet please too as I'm out riding my bike all day. Does riding 150 miles increase my risks? If you feel it does please stop me and tell me to wear a helmet. Oh go on, you know you want to
 

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
After the chap in the ambulance car gave him a lecture by the roadside? A lecture he probably doesn't remember because he was just a tad concussed.
One of the A&E nurses started to deliver a similar lecture, and was cut off - sharply - by the attending doctor who had made a rather more through assessment of his injuries. ;)

EDIT: and he wasn't concussed. A little stunned perhaps but no concussion.
 
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Scoosh

Velocouchiste
Moderator
Location
Edinburgh
MOD NOTE:
Lots of OT posts have been Deleted.
Keep to the Helmet Debate - or this thread will be Closed for a while ...
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I dont doubt the Danes in Copenhagen on their super safe cycle paths chose not to wear a helmet whilst popping down the shops and to work....the same in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. However get off these safe non traffic routes and its a different story...
They are definitely not non traffic routes. Many of them are really rather busy. Also, the big difference in NL is that the minor routes are joined up by short cycle tracks or routes alongside major roads which makes them into long-distance cycle routes, but in many Dutch towns and cities (but not the bits of Rotterdam I've ridden), the cycle tracks end and you're merged back onto the road. Sure, you get "uitgezonder fietsen" (or however it's spelt - "except cycles") on one-ways and no-entries and more of it is 20mph than most UK towns, but you're basically on the road among motorists that are about as bad as ours, plus having to deal with what looks like heavier traffic. I almost got to inspect a couple of examples of Dutch car bodywork close-up!

You should try it....the message is that people have a choice...referring to them as nobbers indicates you aren't giving them the benefit of that choice...
If someone tries to walk around a neighbourhood only in groups or only wearing body armour, locals will try to stop them because it makes their home area look dangerous - it happens most times that it gets out that police have put in a special protocol for a neighbourhood, such as the double-crewing (which I'm not sure is used any more).

No but it is a different place with different road conditions, different cultures, how can you compare riding there or Amsterdam with riding in congested GB?
Easily: ride to Harwich International Port (it's near you), get on a boat, get off in the Hoek, ride to Amsterdam in a day.

By alienating a certain type of cyclist ie "team/club riders" you make yourself sound rather foolish.
Not really - I think most freedom advocates acknowledge that racing teams have different risks to ordinary riders, plus are subject to their own democracy (club/BC/UCI). By suggesting that what applies to that cycling niche should apply to us all, you make yourself sound rather foolish.

No low branches on the roads I ride.
There are on the routes I ride, but the best tip I was given was to wear a soft hat. It's sufficient to deflect the sorts of branches that are bent rather than broken by lorries or buses, yet lots lighter than a hard hat. Plus its failure mode is to fall off, rather than yank my head like a helmet did when a branch end got stuck in a vent.

Try to keep today quiet please too as I'm out riding my bike all day. Does riding 150 miles increase my risks?
Only if you fall asleep. Wear a neck pillow. :laugh:
 

doog

....
They are definitely not non traffic routes. Many of them are really rather busy. Also, the big difference in NL is that the minor routes are joined up by short cycle tracks or routes alongside major roads which makes them into long-distance cycle routes, but in many Dutch towns and cities (but not the bits of Rotterdam I've ridden), the cycle tracks end and you're merged back onto the road. Sure, you get "uitgezonder fietsen" (or however it's spelt - "except cycles") on one-ways and no-entries and more of it is 20mph than most UK towns, but you're basically on the road among motorists that are about as bad as ours, plus having to deal with what looks like heavier traffic. I almost got to inspect a couple of examples of Dutch car bodywork close-up!

You might need a new route planner ..I can recommend one, it got me from The Hook to Germany via Rotterdam and Nijmegan without a sniff of arguing with a Dutch motorist.

(However Im not doubting your experiences of course) ...it was out of the towns I saw more helmet wearing - good or bad I dunno.
 
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GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
@mjray you'll note that Copenhagen has LESS mileage of cycle lanes than either Aarhus or Odense both of which are considerable smaller cities in Denmark. You'll also note that all the bike vs car, and nearly all the bike vs bike conflict, and collisions, I've seen takes place at junctions. Where, of course, the separate infrastructure provision, if present on the approaching roads, simple ceases to exist. Leaving you to dice with the buses, taxis, HGVs, and impatient private car owners, who get really, really wound up by Copenhagen's one way streets, traffic lights, and pedestrian crossings that force cars (and bikes) to wait when the lights are green.
 
No but it is a different place with different road conditions, different cultures, how can you compare riding there or Amsterdam with riding in congested GB?
By alienating a certain type of cyclist ie "team/club riders" you make yourself sound rather foolish.

I ride recumbents, I am alienated by these clubs and organisations that refuse to recognise recumbents
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I ride recumbents, I am alienated by these clubs and organisations that refuse to recognise recumbents
BC recognise them... and ban them as dangerous to cyclists... with sharp safety analysis like that, it's amazing that cyclists are still injured in BC events and astonishing that we mere plebs don't respect their rules for everyday cycling(!) (@steve50 - now I'm being sarcastic)
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
You'll also note that all the bike vs car, and nearly all the bike vs bike conflict, and collisions, I've seen takes place at junctions. Where, of course, the separate infrastructure provision, if present on the approaching roads, simple ceases to exist.
That's one thing I really appreciated in the Netherlands: often, where there was no other cycle infrastructure, there was some at junctions, especially if some of the roads were fast or busy. We get that rather backwards in England at present, preferring to do the relatively easy bits and then giving up at junctions and dumping cyclists back into a mêlée.

I've not ridden in Denmark yet, so I appreciate hearing from those who have. In the Netherlands, adult helmet use appeared almost confined to sports cyclists (wielrenners IIRC) while rare among ordinary cyclists (fietsers).
 
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