The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Sharky]

How would that work?
a ring type device on the side with a flexible straw down to the mouth??

Just needs a tap on the head

 

[Profpointy]

How would that work?
a ring type device on the side with a flexible straw down to the mouth??



or am I deliberately mis-understanding?



and - inevitably - they are already available
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295243663850?var=0&toolid=10044&customid=082981faa7a9197499f0e65b7eedc287

Whilst I wasn't 100% being serious, it was still a somewhat serious, if facetious point.

Alcohol consumption is strongly associated with head injury, and indeed, injuries generally. (no citations but not really in dispute). A recent paper discussed upthread (supposedly) made a case for cycle helmets by noting (from memory) a correlation between head injury rates and lack of cycle helmets, then rather glibly mentioned, but failed to properly consider, the correlation between alcohol consumption and not wearing a helmet. Given the obvious linkage between drinking and falling off bikes, or indeed falling in general, they did seem to be targeting the wrong issue.

At the risk of being maudlin an old friend was drinking quite a lot and one day fell and knocked his head at home and sadly died of a brain bleed.

Of course, we'd all instinctively ridicule a proposal for "pub helmets", or even "drinking-at-home helmets", but if we were rational and objective it would likely be a more compelling case than for cycle helmets.

This isn't per se a reason not to wear a cycle helmet, IF it had a benefit on balance, but does somewhat take the wind out of the sails of any argument for compulsion.

For me, I'd need to be persuaded that

1) Cycle helmets on balance are beneficial
(this hasn't really be demonstrated by research that doesn't unravel when looked at closely)

2) Any risk reduction is significantly greater than for comparable scenarios where you really wouldn't bother with a helmet. (OK a vague notion but let's say pedestrian helmets, stairs helmets, pub helmets)

A comparison for point 2 might be the wisdom of safety goggles for using a grinder, or riding a motorcycle, but not bothering for cooking in the kitchen or using a power drill (at home)

For the record I was an early adopter of a cycle helmet in about 1980 but having read up on it no longer wear one, so was an early ditcher of helmets too.

 

[Milzy]

Whilst I wasn't 100% being serious, it was still a somewhat serious, if facetious point.

Alcohol consumption is strongly associated with head injury, and indeed, injuries generally. (no citations but not really in dispute). A recent paper discussed upthread (supposedly) made a case for cycle helmets by noting (from memory) a correlation between head injury rates and lack of cycle helmets, then rather glibly mentioned, but failed to properly consider, the correlation between alcohol consumption and not wearing a helmet. Given the obvious linkage between drinking and falling off bikes, or indeed falling in general, they did seem to be targeting the wrong issue.

At the risk of being maudlin an old friend was drinking quite a lot and one day fell and knocked his head at home and sadly died of a brain bleed.

Of course, we'd all instinctively ridicule a proposal for "pub helmets", or even "drinking-at-home helmets", but if we were rational and objective it would likely be a more compelling case than for cycle helmets.

This isn't per se a reason not to wear a cycle helmet, IF it had a benefit on balance, but does somewhat take the wind out of the sails of any argument for compulsion.

For me, I'd need to be persuaded that

1) Cycle helmets on balance are beneficial
(this hasn't really be demonstrated by research that doesn't unravel when looked at closely)

2) Any risk reduction is significantly greater than for comparable scenarios where you really wouldn't bother with a helmet. (OK a vague notion but let's say pedestrian helmets, stairs helmets, pub helmets)

A comparison for point 2 might be the wisdom of safety goggles for using a grinder, or riding a motorcycle, but not bothering for cooking in the kitchen or using a power drill (at home)

For the record I was an early adopter of a cycle helmet in about 1980 but having read up on it no longer wear one, so was an early ditcher of helmets too.

Do you wear a cycle cap then or have hair gel on or a bald head? I know people who use lids for long rides but not for commutes. The shorter commute is the ride you’re most likely to hit your head on though.

 

[Profpointy]

Do you wear a cycle cap then or have hair gel on or a bald head? I know people who use lids for long rides but not for commutes. The shorter commute is the ride you’re most likely to hit your head on though.

Wear a beanie type hat if it's cold or raining but not in nice weather. Full head of hear, certainly no hair gel or other such ponceyness !

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I did see some research that said that if you want to look for places to force people to wear helmets then car drivers come a long way above cyclists
as do pedestrians

although that is clearly an infringement on people's freedom

 

[mjr]

The shorter commute is the ride you’re most likely to hit your head on though.

Is it? I think I read that one of the RideLondon 100s had roughly double the casualty rate of general riding. On short commutes, riders will probably know every hazard by name and all the best lines to take to avoid them, so I'd expect the crash rate to be lower than average and severity to be minor, with fewer head impacts.

 

[classic33]

Is it? I think I read that one of the RideLondon 100s had roughly double the casualty rate of general riding. On short commutes, riders will probably know every hazard by name and all the best lines to take to avoid them, so I'd expect the crash rate to be lower than average and severity to be minor, with fewer head impacts.

How many of those doing organised rides ride every day though?

Then you've got the short commutes that are done, by bike, as a last resort when there's problems with public transport. Not everyone who commutes by cycle does so every day, and on the same roads every time.

 

[icowden]

Is it? I think I read that one of the RideLondon 100s had roughly double the casualty rate of general riding. On short commutes, riders will probably know every hazard by name and all the best lines to take to avoid them, so I'd expect the crash rate to be lower than average and severity to be minor, with fewer head impacts.

Useful article here (ignore the headline):-
https://the5krunner.com/2022/05/30/ridelondon-should-be-cancelled-in-2023/

the TLR is that you have groups of very fast riders as well as slow riders, but they aren't necessarily used to riding in pelotons, plus the roads are busy enough with bikes that it makes it hard to see speed bumps and people will fail to anticipate each other.

It would be interesting to know what the incidence of head injury is though compared with the average - given that everyone has to wear a helmet.

In other news, a study has found that e-scooter riders tend not to wear helmets and are much more likely to sustain a head injury.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64801387

E-scooter riders were nearly four times more likely to be drunk or otherwise impaired - 26% compared with 7% - and less likely to have been wearing a helmet, with 7% compared with 47% for cyclists.

Comparatively, almost twice the number of e-scooter riders had severe head injuries, with 37 out of the 41 critical injuries among e-scooter riders being in that category.

It seems that not wearing a helmet isn't working for them.

 

[matticus]

Is it? I think I read that one of the RideLondon 100s had roughly double the casualty rate of general riding. On short commutes, riders will probably know every hazard by name and all the best lines to take to avoid them, so I'd expect the crash rate to be lower than average and severity to be minor, with fewer head impacts.

I very much doubt that your single RideLondon datapoint is significantly significiant. I'd expect you to know better!

 

[mjr]

I very much doubt that your single RideLondon datapoint is significantly significiant. I'd expect you to know better!

Well, it's not actually a single datapoint, just one where it was double, but there were a series of them over a few RideLondon years, and other have posted anecdotes that suggest safety hasn't improved with the event changed to ride towards the rising sun instead.

Of course, it doesn't prove anything, not did I claim it did, but the scale of the difference makes make me doubt an overbroad-looking claim like "The shorter commute is the ride you’re most likely to hit your head on" enough to question it. And why not? A single datapoint is probably better than none.