The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[MontyVeda]

Perhaps that wouldn't be a bad thing?

I'd rather folk stick the helmet debate than the thread be closed... why would you want the debate to end?

 

[steve50]

I'd rather folk stick the helmet debate than the thread be closed... why would you want the debate to end?

Because no one is right and no one is wrong, the same old debate repeated over and over again with some ill tempered replies and retorts leading to warnings from the moderators.
If people were able to debate in a civilised fashion without the need for name calling and insults and openly ridiculing other members it would be a much friendlier thread and would probably continue unhindered.

 

[MontyVeda]

...
If people were able to debate in a civilised fashion without the need for name calling and insults and openly ridiculing other members it would be a much friendlier thread and would probably continue unhindered.

It certainly would.

Long may it continue and long may we be free to question whether a bicycle helmet saved a life or not.... in a civilised manner of course.

 

[theclaud]

Because no one is right and no one is wrong

I beg to differ.

 

[newfhouse]

Because no one is right and no one is wrong

People have the right to be wrong, as long as they don't affect my rights by enforcing their wrongness.

 

[steve50]

I beg to differ.

That's your prerogative

People have the right to be wrong, as long as they don't affect my rights by enforcing their wrongness.

does that mean you are right?

 

[Profpointy]

Ive never had that once but Ive seen it played out like a broken record from several posters on here.

Just questioning this - you've honestly never had anyone question your non wearing of a helmet.

You must be in the minority then as I'm not a big cyclist these days but it's happened to me a fair bit: certainly dozens of times. And I used to wear a helmet before I looked into it a bit too.

Of course I am assuming here you don't wear a helmet - else yiur comment makes no sense

 

[newfhouse]

does that mean you are right?

I believe so.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

So folks, help me out, what do we think is so different about

• the laws of physics
• rider attitudes e.g. dressing for the destination not the journey
• driver attitudes
• the density of the tarmac
• the density of Danish skulls and the thickness of Danish skin
• et cetera

here in Copenhagen, versus the UK, that the vast majority of cyclists locally don't wear helmets yet ride their bikes, with a frequency/modal share most British towns can only dream of, apparently either ignorant of the risk or entirely happy to bear that risk? Are they stupid? Should I be telling them so? It is bike-to-work month here after all.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Just questioning this - you've honestly never had anyone question your non wearing of a helmet.

You must be in the minority then as I'm not a big cyclist these days but it's happened to me a fair bit: certainly dozens of times. And I used to wear a helmet before I looked into it a bit too.

Of course I am assuming here you don't wear a helmet - else yiur comment makes no sense

I can't ride with my club because helmets are mandatory and the club literature says they improve safety.
If I ride with club members on a non-club ride at least one person will ask me why I don't wear a helmet (any more) and at least 50% of those who ask will then go on try to proselytise me, often resorting to ridicule after the "well my mate's helmet saved his life" story fails to make the scales fall away.

It is almost like being part of some persecuted minority group.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Because no one is right and no one is wrong.

Someone must be right. Someone must be wrong.

I'm afraid that's just the way truth works. But I accept we live in a post-truth world where endlessly asserting falsehoods, anecdata, and hyperbolic nonsense often carries the day. See also Johnson, Boris and Trump, Donald and Clinton, Hillary and William.

 

[newfhouse]

So folks, help me out, what do we think is so different about

• the laws of physics
• rider attitudes e.g. dressing for the destination not the journey
• driver attitudes
• the density of the tarmac
• the density of Danish skulls and the thickness of Danish skin
• et cetera

here in Copenhagen, versus the UK, that the vast majority of cyclists locally don't wear helmets yet ride their bikes, with a frequency/modal share most British towns can only dream of, apparently either ignorant of the risk or entirely happy to bear that risk? Are they stupid? Should I be telling them so? It is bike-to-work month here after all.

The simple answer is that, for most Danish cycle users, it's a sensible transport option rather than a sport or hobby and hence doesn't need anything more than a bike and a raincoat.

 

[steve50]

So folks, help me out, what do we think is so different about

• the laws of physics
• rider attitudes e.g. dressing for the destination not the journey
• driver attitudes
• the density of the tarmac
• the density of Danish skulls and the thickness of Danish skin
• et cetera

here in Copenhagen, versus the UK, that the vast majority of cyclists locally don't wear helmets yet ride their bikes, with a frequency/modal share most British towns can only dream of, apparently either ignorant of the risk or entirely happy to bear that risk? Are they stupid? Should I be telling them so? It is bike-to-work month here after all.

Bikes vs Cars
Opening Night film of the 2015 EFF

Traffic gridlock around the world is frustrating people, wasting their time, polluting the air and contributing to climate change. Director Fredrik Gertten (BANANAS! and Big Boys Gone Bananas!) investigates the daily global spectacle of traffic and looks for solutions. Following bicycle activists’ crusades to foster meaningful change, the film documents the struggle for bicyclists in a society dominated by cars. From bike activists in Sao Paulo and Los Angeles, fighting for safe bike lanes, to the city of Copenhagen, where forty percent commute daily by bike, BIKES vs CARS considers the revolutionary changes that could take place if more cities made room for bicyclists. Directed by Fredrik Gertten.

If the above in bold is true surely that would mean a lot less automobiles on the roads of Copenhagen and if what I am led to believe is also correct Copenhagen is a very bike friendly city with roads designed to accommodate cyclists.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The simple answer is that, for most Danish cycle users, it's a sensible transport option rather than a sport or hobby and hence doesn't need anything more than a bike and a raincoat.

Good point, well made.

Whereas for the 10's of thousands of cycle commuters in London, and the couple of hundred cross-country cycle commuters in Sussex, riding a bike to work is what? And for the middle-aged lady cycling to the shops in Horsham? Hobby or sport?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Bikes vs Cars
Opening Night film of the 2015 EFF

Traffic gridlock around the world is frustrating people, wasting their time, polluting the air and contributing to climate change. Director Fredrik Gertten (BANANAS! and Big Boys Gone Bananas!) investigates the daily global spectacle of traffic and looks for solutions. Following bicycle activists’ crusades to foster meaningful change, the film documents the struggle for bicyclists in a society dominated by cars. From bike activists in Sao Paulo and Los Angeles, fighting for safe bike lanes, to the city of Copenhagen, where forty percent commute daily by bike, BIKES vs CARS considers the revolutionary changes that could take place if more cities made room for bicyclists. Directed by Fredrik Gertten.

If the above in bold is true surely that would mean a lot less automobiles on the roads of Copenhagen and if what I am led to believe is also correct Copenhagen is a very bike friendly city with roads designed to accommodate cyclists.

Copenhagens roads are choked with cars peak hours. Despite the penal taxes central govt places on car purchase. A few roads, major routes, are designed to accommodate cyclists. Most, as in the vast majority, aren't. In comparison with other Danish cities cph is badly served with dedicated infrastructure, And the provision doesn't extend to safe junctions. Copenhagen hook anyone? No roundabouts that I've come across though. And you can ride the 'wrong' way down lots of streets legally, and plod don't seem to care if you do so illegally, in many instances, provided you are riding sensibly.