Electric cars.. Nothing new

[DRM]

I'm not disputing the van will have had more charges. I'm merely showing a counter example to the sweeping generalisation you made "the battery will be completely shot".

Of course they fail but at a much lower rate than the usual internet FUD would claim. The battery will of course have experienced some degradation, but again unlikely to be "shot". Only your employer and you can assess whether those vans meet your use case but many companies have been using electric vans for years so there must be a lot of data available for the residual battery health for similar vans after your example 5 year lease.

Most of the Amazon deliveries near me seem to be in fully electric vans and they must do ridiculous mileages.

But the Amazon Depot’s are all local, there’s 2 at Cross Green alone, they’re everywhere

 

[DRM]

I'm not disputing the van will have had more charges. I'm merely showing a counter example to the sweeping generalisation you made "the battery will be completely shot".

Like for like you need to compare to a 600,000 mile Tesla, and it will be severely degraded at that point

 

[Dadam]

Like for like you need to compare to a 600,000 mile Tesla, and it will be severely degraded at that point

It's not like for like though, you're cherry picking values. For example you assumed it is a Long Range model with a range of 350 miles. I can't remember which one it is, but let's say it's a standard range model WLTP 248 miles (claimed), tested by What Car "Real Range" at 181 miles. That would be 1,105 charges, a lot closer to your claim of 1500 charges on the potential van.

That puts the hypothetical van as equivalent to a 270k mile Tesla not a 600k. Assuming degradation is linear that would be 35% more degradation, which applied to this car would still be only just over 20 miles, a loss of 11% capacity. A long way from "shot".

Admittedly the Tesla in question is a sample size of one and it would be interesting to get some real world stats from commercial fleet operators. Out of interest, what model of van are they considering?

But the Amazon Depot’s are all local, there’s 2 at Cross Green alone, they’re everywhere

Not relevant. Miles are miles whether local or not. They're always out; we've had deliveries at 10pm. So they're clocking up the miles.

 

[icowden]

Most of the Amazon deliveries near me seem to be in fully electric vans and they must do ridiculous mileages.

Their vans do 150 to 200 miles per charge. Most of their day is spent travelling quite small distances, so this is ample for a full day of deliveries. The vans are going to be doing about 1000 miles per week, 7 charges per week at a 22kw depot charger.

 

[icowden]

Like for like you need to compare to a 600,000 mile Tesla, and it will be severely degraded at that point

https://www.zap-map.com/news/electric-taxi-company-clocks-100000-miles-in-nissan-leaf

Just as a pointer Wizzy was charged over 1700 times and had a tiny battery. At 100k miles it had almost full battery health. And that was back in 2015. In 2017 she had reached 170,000 miles with two bars gone (78.75% life left). She has since retired as a taxi in favour of a longer range and newer Leaf. Normal taxis usually last about 3 years according to the operator. In 2015 she was also still on her first set of brake pads, and maintenance has been minimal over her lifetime.

 

[dicko]

Our stop/start Ford Ka bought new in 2012 has the original battery it’s nearly thirteen years old.

 

[DRM]

It's not like for like though, you're cherry picking values. For example you assumed it is a Long Range model with a range of 350 miles. I can't remember which one it is, but let's say it's a standard range model WLTP 248 miles (claimed), tested by What Car "Real Range" at 181 miles. That would be 1,105 charges, a lot closer to your claim of 1500 charges on the potential van.

That puts the hypothetical van as equivalent to a 270k mile Tesla not a 600k. Assuming degradation is linear that would be 35% more degradation, which applied to this car would still be only just over 20 miles, a loss of 11% capacity. A long way from "shot".

Admittedly the Tesla in question is a sample size of one and it would be interesting to get some real world stats from commercial fleet operators. Out of interest, what model of van are they considering?


Not relevant. Miles are miles whether local or not. They're always out; we've had deliveries at 10pm. So they're clocking up the miles.

If they are local, they aren’t doing long runs, plus they still run a hell of a lot of diesel vans too, they don’t go that far from base, unlike me going all over the North of England, and I suspect weight wise they won’t be permantly fully loaded weight wise,

 

[middle of the road]

Well hardly anybody will have fast chargers. Household electricity supplies would not cope. Most people will have 7kW chargers, which use less power than some showers. Household electricity supplies generally have a main breaker which trips at 80 Amps - a little under 20kW.

And as you say, most people will charge at off peak times - people with EV chargers will generally be on tariffs which vary by time of day. Or if they also have solar panels, will charge when those are giving them the most power.

I'm not up on chargers but if not a fast charger then how long would a 7kW charger take to charge a Tesla battery fro 20% to 80%?
I suggest 80% as I'm led to believe 100% isn't good for the battery.

 

[CXRAndy]

As pointed out previously work are weighing up using electric vans, the type would currently have 100 miles of realistic range, that means that last week alone it would have needed 9 full charges, and one half charge, so even if it was charged at home would mean over a 5 year lease, the battery would be absolutely shot

My wife's Tesla has just shy 100k miles. The car is 5 years old next month. It comes with a 150k miles 8 year battery warranty.

The car has lost around 6% of range, this happened mostly in the first 2 years.

There are many examples of huge mileage Tesla's on original batteries

 

[Alex321]

I'm not up on chargers but if not a fast charger then how long would a 7kW charger take to charge a Tesla battery fro 20% to 80%?
I suggest 80% as I'm led to believe 100% isn't good for the battery.

Looking it up, it seems 7kW is considered "fast", which is not as quick as the "Rapid" or "ultra rapid" that are most commercial chargers (between 22kW and 150kW)

Very difficult to say, as it depends on a lot of factors.

According to this https://pod-point.com/guides/driver...D6onuIQzA9yQ9rR4cwI8ruCUc7HN5Q6QZcobtlzx_fQM9

A tesla model S would take 11 hours empty to full, so probably more like 7 for 20% to 80%.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

don't have the problem that a 1 mile or 1/2 mile journey clogs up

the roads.

 

[icowden]

I'm not up on chargers but if not a fast charger then how long would a 7kW charger take to charge a Tesla battery fro 20% to 80%?
I suggest 80% as I'm led to believe 100% isn't good for the battery.

Generally speaking, a 7Kw charger charges most EVs overnight. My ID4 has an 83kwh battery and I usually charge at around 20%. In 6 hours it's usually back to full or approaching it. A 22kw charger reduces that to 2 to 3 hours. a 50kw+ charger takes that down to between 30 minutes and an hour.

You have to remember that charging isn't linear though. The car will charge fastest in the early stages. So that 50kw+charger will take you from <20% to 70 to 80% in about 20 to 30 mins depending on the car and how much charge in can accept. Once you get to that 70% to 80% stage, the charging slows down so your next 20 to 30 mins will only add 20 to 30%, possibly even slower.

There's a good article here about the 80% / 20% limits myth.
https://web.archive.org/web/2023042...-charging-more-fud-from-fossil-fuel-industry/

Generally if you have an non-LFP it's recommended to avoid charging to 100% all the time as it will gradually reduce the battery life a bit, same as it's recommended not to just leave your car on charge when you go on holiday. For LFP Batteries, Tesla advise the reverse, and to take it up to 100% as much as possible. Charging to 100% isn't going to kill your EV but in the long term, if you are planning to keep the car until it dies, you might lose a bit more range than had you been a bit more conservative. That's about it.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Elder Son is a volunteer fireman, and they are trying to find a way to deal with fires in Battery powered cars. A Belgian fire service has introduced this possible solution:

Story here: https://www.firehouse.com/operation...ters-submerge-burning-hybrid-car-in-container

 

[Alex321]

Elder Son is a volunteer fireman, and they are trying to find a way to deal with fires in Battery powered cars. A Belgian fire service has introduced this possible solution:

View attachment 743569

Story here: https://www.firehouse.com/operation...ters-submerge-burning-hybrid-car-in-container

I can't imagine that could work. The car would have burned out before they could get it set up and a crane there capable of lifting a burning car in.

[EDIT]
I posted that before reading the story in the link. They only put it in the container to cool the battery after they have the fire out.

 

[CXRAndy]

I'm not up on chargers but if not a fast charger then how long would a 7kW charger take to charge a Tesla battery fro 20% to 80%?
I suggest 80% as I'm led to believe 100% isn't good for the battery.

Around 5-6 hours easily done overnight.

Most cheap overnight tariffs are for 5-6 hours, it becomes really cheap to run an EV when you charge this way.

My son's running expenses for his previous car to his EV. £13 a day to less than £2 a day