Are we being forced to go electric?

[icowden]

Manufacturers typically offer five to eight years of warranty, and most experts agree you may be on borrowed time much over 100,000 miles.

Most experts agree that an EV battery will last between 10 and 20 years. Whilst the warranty is often only 8 years, you do have to look at what the warrant covers. The warranty states that

Volkswagen AG therefore guarantees the customer buying a brand new BEV vehicle with an electric drive that the usable capacity of the battery in this vehicle will not fall below 70% within eight years (or up to 160,000 kilometres driven, whichever comes first) as long as the vehicle is used correctly.

Obviously lots of get outs in that sentence, but the warranty is not about the battery stopping working, it's just about usable capacity. It's the same warranty that Tesla give. Although data shows that Tesla’s battery degradation is at less than 10% after over 160,000 miles.

So provided you have the battery in care mode they will guarantee you won't lose too much range and will recondition the battery if you do. There are no statistics or news stories that I can find regarding complete battery failure. This rather suggests that if it is going to happen, it's going to happen early doors. Otherwise it keeps working although gradually reducing in range.

Given that you can buy a 10 year old EV on autotrader, albeit with limited range, and that battery tech 10 years ago was nowhere near as good as battery tech now, I think we can be reasonably confident that EV batteries are not just going to fail.

Also worth noting ever faster charging thrashes the battery, further reducing its service life.

Which has nothing to do with that article which is about EV depreciation being linked to supply now meeting demand, an increase in the availability of second hand EVs and price drops from Tesla. Half the posts in this thread are moaning that EVs are too expensive and out of reach of the ordinary family. We are now seeing prices move in the right direction and you're complaining about it?!

 

[cougie uk]

Depreciation of EVs is not quite as low as some on here would have us believe.

In the last six months newer EVs have lost a startling one third of their value, and 29 of the 30 fastest depreciating cars were EVs.

In comparison, ICE cars lost just one percent or less of their value.

That makes for a very risky overall market for the private punter spending his own money.

For older EVs battery longevity remains a real problem.

Manufacturers typically offer five to eight years of warranty, and most experts agree you may be on borrowed time much over 100,000 miles.

An EV with little or no battery warranty cannot be worth much, given a replacement battery pack could be £5,000-£10,000.

Also worth noting ever faster charging thrashes the battery, further reducing its service life.

https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/why-electric-car-prices-dropping-b1085646.html

If this is true then it's great news for everyone complaining that EVs are too pricey. There will be some great bargains to be had.

 

[mjr]

So your prepared to spend £45,000 to £50,000 on a Tesla Model 3 and be chuffed to bits when it comes back wrecked, yeah whatever

Whether I did would depend on the cleaning and repair insurance, but I didn't disagree with you on that. I questioned the use of a term normally meaning one's child for a blasted car! It's a car, not a baby!

 

[Chislenko]

If everybody bought an EV how would Sadiq Khan make any money 😊

 

[ianrauk]

If everybody bought an EV how would Sadiq Khan make any money 😊

On a system originally thought up and implemented by Boris Johnson.

 

[Pale Rider]

Which has nothing to do with that article which is about EV depreciation being linked to supply now meeting demand,

Your comprehension skills continue to impress, but thrashing the battery by fast charging - and discharging - remains relevant to EVs as a used prospect.

I agree we are not yet hearing of EVs with unusable battery packs.

On t'other hand both Nissan - for the Leaf - and Renault - for the Zoe - are involved in programmes to use the batteries in static applications.

That suggests there are not so many of those batteries, for whatever reason, which are still powering cars.

The Leaf and Zoe were among the first mainstream EVs, so the fact their batteries are already being repurposed doesn't bode too well for newer models.

If this is true then it's great news for everyone complaining that EVs are too pricey. There will be some great bargains to be had.

There could be, although entering a boom and bust market is very risky if resale is any consideration.

Buying the car and keeping it for years would do much to negate that, but the user than has the Sword of Damocles of battery longevity hanging over his head.

All-in-all a tricky decision for most of us for whom a car is the biggest purchase we make apart from a house.

 

[lazybloke]

Most experts agree that an EV battery will last between 10 and 20 years. Whilst the warranty is often only 8 years, you do have to look at what the warrant covers. The warranty states that

Obviously lots of get outs in that sentence, but the warranty is not about the battery stopping working, it's just about usable capacity. It's the same warranty that Tesla give. Although data shows that Tesla’s battery degradation is at less than 10% after over 160,000 miles.

So provided you have the battery in care mode they will guarantee you won't lose too much range and will recondition the battery if you do. There are no statistics or news stories that I can find regarding complete battery failure. This rather suggests that if it is going to happen, it's going to happen early doors. Otherwise it keeps working although gradually reducing in range.

Given that you can buy a 10 year old EV on autotrader, albeit with limited range, and that battery tech 10 years ago was nowhere near as good as battery tech now, I think we can be reasonably confident that EV batteries are not just going to fail.



Which has nothing to do with that article which is about EV depreciation being linked to supply now meeting demand, an increase in the availability of second hand EVs and price drops from Tesla. Half the posts in this thread are moaning that EVs are too expensive and out of reach of the ordinary family. We are now seeing prices move in the right direction and you're complaining about it?!

Some fantastic stats there, really encouraging to hear improvements in real-world battery longevity data.

When the time comes to buy, i'll look v closely at data like this to help choose the right car.

Curious they say the newer Leaf battery wasn't so good. Dealers will need to be very transparent in sharing battery expectations if they are to gain the trust of buyers.

And there's still an issue that the people buying evs so far are mostly the ones with access to private home charging, and/or who do predominantly short journeys. Difficult to guess how results might differ is there was a more representative sample of drivers.

 

[Mike_P]

If there are EVs with failing batteries still good for the road expect replacement battery DIY kits and an outbreak of self igniting EVs aka eBikes.

 

[icowden]

Your comprehension skills continue to impress, but thrashing the battery by fast charging - and discharging - remains relevant to EVs as a used prospect.

It does, although for the vast majority of use cases that isn't going to have happened. It's the same as buying a car with one careful elderly driver owner vs one owned by a boy racer IMHO.

On t'other hand both Nissan - for the Leaf - and Renault - for the Zoe - are involved in programmes to use the batteries in static applications.

Yep. But then you have to remember that a 10 to 13 year old Leaf was pretty much a ground breaker. The battery wasn't big to start with and the tech in that battery is 10 to 13 years old. So no wonder some of those first Leafs are being written off and the batteries repurposed / recycled. The Zoe is similar. The first Leafs had a 24kwh or 30kwh battery. Nissan estimate their batteries to last 22 years. Of course having such a tiny battery in the first place means you notice when your 73 mile range (on a good day) drops. The current leaf has a range of 168 miles - over double the original.

All-in-all a tricky decision for most of us for whom a car is the biggest purchase we make apart from a house.

Yep - a fair point. But few keep their cars for 15 years, and many now buy on PCP.

 

[DRM]

Whether I did would depend on the cleaning and repair insurance, but I didn't disagree with you on that. I questioned the use of a term normally meaning one's child for a blasted car! It's a car, not a baby!

But the vast majority of people, rightly or wrongly view a car in that way though

 

[mjr]

But the vast majority of people, rightly or wrongly view a car in that way though

Citation required. I think it's pretty obvious from the state of a lot of old bangers that it's a great deal less common than you think, even if it's not just the stereotypical 1980s sales reps wrongly thinking that way any more. Cars are just a tool, even if they are treated as a bit much like a hammer.

 

[DRM]

Citation required. I think it's pretty obvious from the state of a lot of old bangers that it's a great deal less common than you think, even if it's not just the stereotypical 1980s sales reps wrongly thinking that way any more. Cars are just a tool, even if they are treated as a bit much like a hammer.

I think you’re very wrong, I’m not talking about old bangers, I’m referring to someone who puts tens of thousands of pounds of their own money into a new, very nearly new car, they will treat it as their pride and joy regardless of what propels it

 

[Alex321]

But the vast majority of people, rightly or wrongly view a car in that way though

I doubt that very much. Most of those who buy a car brand new may do so, but I'm pretty sure a fairly large majority don't buy brand new, and are not so precious about their car.

It may be a fairly large minority who view their car the way you suggest, but I doubt it is a majority, never mind the vast majority.

 

[dicko]

I doubt that very much. Most of those who buy a car brand new may do so, but I'm pretty sure a fairly large majority don't buy brand new, and are not so precious about their car.

It may be a fairly large minority who view their car the way you suggest, but I doubt it is a majority, never mind the vast majority.

We bought our Ford Ka brand new in April 2012 so far we have covered nearly 15,000 miles. We intend to keep this great little car as it’s too expensive to change it does everything we want it to do. We have cycles and bus passes plus senior railcards for getting about. It’s so simple to repair and cheap to service. Here’s to the next thirteen years.

 

[Chislenko]

But the vast majority of people, rightly or wrongly view a car in that way though

As someone who worked a lifetime in the motor industry a car is just a means of transport to me.

And yes the last two I have purchased new (one for the wife as well) with my own money.

As long as they get me from A to B and do it in a way that makes life easier for me (auto / cruise etc) I couldn't give a monkey's about it. Think I have washed it once mind.