Are we being forced to go electric?

[Andy in Germany]

There are only bright sides.

I'm not convinced of that: electric cars are just as environmentally damaging in manufacture; just as dangerous; just as inefficient in their use of road space as IC cars. In a way it's worse because people who would otherwise avoid using a car could well decide that because Batteries are "clean" they can drive, and battery cars are only as clean as the energy used to charge them.

And that's before we try and replace the energy from oil with the stored energy in batteries on a 1-1 basis, which I'm still not convinced can happen despite much touting of "smart grids". There will be a great deal of snake oil going around because politicians and others in power are desperate to keep the status quo.

 

[mjr]

fancy having do drag your pride & joy back after one trip to clean human waste of all types out of it, yeugh even driven taxis aren't immune to it

"Pride and joy"? You're meant to be renting your car out, not your child!

Mind you, children seem to need emptying of waste after every trip. And before. And repeatedly during. Yet people still seem to like them.

 

[icowden]

I'm not convinced of that: electric cars are just as environmentally damaging in manufacture; just as dangerous; just as inefficient in their use of road space as IC cars. I

But pollute less. So still better even if all of those things are true. And in the future self-drive cars may contribute to removing cars from the road instead of adding to them.

 

[icowden]

"Pride and joy"? You're meant to be renting your car out, not your child!
Mind you, children seem to need emptying of waste after every trip. And before. And repeatedly during. Yet people still seem to like them.

Can't find DRM's post that you were replying to but - that's the point of the camera. Just make users aware that "if you trash my car this footage goes to the police and you get prosecuted. Leave it a mess and your account will be charged a £200 valetting fee...".

 

[Andy in Germany]

But pollute less. So still better even if all of those things are true. And in the future self-drive cars may contribute to removing cars from the road instead of adding to them.

If the electricity is generated from a renewable, non-polluting source, yes, and of course, if you ignore the damage caused by the mining and extracting those precious metals.

However, I suspect the narrative of "Electric=green" will be too attractive for a lot of people wanting to maintain current lifestyles, which in turn will increase pressure for more power generation when we really need less, which will in turn mean more non-renewables being used...

As to self driving; even if that ever works, I've heard a persuasive argument suggesting people will leave cars to drive around empty while they go shopping because that will be easier than finding a parking place, so you could end up with an increase in the number of inefficient vehicles clogging roads.

 

[Alex321]

If the electricity is generated from a renewable, non-polluting source, yes, and of course, if you ignore the damage caused by the mining and extracting those precious metals.

Nobody is saying they are perfect, but they are better than ICE vehicles - which use very similar quantities of materials that are mined using questionable practices.

 

[HMS_Dave]

EV cars were a real opportunity to rethink the way we travel and to economise road and town space, energy usage and cost to the environment but as always it's a missed opportunity in order to maintain profits and the status quo. Most journeys are undertaken by a single occupant who in Europe averages 80kgs. A Tesla depending on the model weighs around 2000kgs+ so most of the energy you use is actually to propel the car only. What a waste, really... We could use much less resources, irrespective of what powers it if we revolutionised personal transport.

 

[FishFright]

EV cars were a real opportunity to rethink the way we travel and to economise road and town space, energy usage and cost to the environment but as always it's a missed opportunity in order to maintain profits and the status quo. Most journeys are undertaken by a single occupant who in Europe averages 80kgs. A Tesla depending on the model weighs around 2000kgs+ so most of the energy you use is actually to propel the car only. What a waste, really... We could use much less resources, irrespective of what powers it if we revolutionised personal transport.

No one is going to change in time , a sizable percentage of people can't even handle electric cars never mind anything more radical.

 

[classic33]

Can't find DRM's post that you were replying to but - that's the point of the camera. Just make users aware that "if you trash my car this footage goes to the police and you get prosecuted. Leave it a mess and your account will be charged a £200 valetting fee...".

But you're assuming that the separate Tesla Taxi has been shelved. Having seen drawings of the various internal layouts planned, I very much doubt they have.

The "soiling charge" is usually set by the licencing department, not the owner.
Would you be required to register as a taxi owner-operator I wonder?

 

[Andy in Germany]

EV cars were a real opportunity to rethink the way we travel and to economise road and town space, energy usage and cost to the environment...

I fully agree with your post, but I think EV's are an attempt to avoid doing just that.

There's a lot of money in telling people what they want to hear which is why Musk and co are doing it.

 

[Pale Rider]

How do you define a "tired battery"? The Ioniq I quoted as 50k mileson the clock. A leaf for 9k has 141k miles on the clock.

A tired battery is one which will no longer hold much charge.

The mileage is largely irrelevant, other than to say the 'use it or lose it' principle suggests batteries last longer if they are regularly used.

In that respect, a higher mileage is a recommendation, but the fact remains you could do 100k+ on a lithium battery if you were prepared to charge it more and more often as its (already marginal) range decreases.

None of this matters to people such as yourself who get a new car every three years, but for the majority who run older cars it absolutely does.

Lithium batteries do conk out, it's not a matter of if, just when.

In that respect alone an older EV is a very risky buy.

 

[icowden]

A tired battery is one which will no longer hold much charge.

Thank you for that. You learn something new every day.

The mileage is largely irrelevant, other than to say the 'use it or lose it' principle suggests batteries last longer if they are regularly used.

Again, I bow to your superior knowledge. Many would say that the experience of EV drivers, this history of the Leaf as a taxi and the fact that EV batteries are expected to last 15 to 20 years is probably more important.

In that respect, a higher mileage is a recommendation, but the fact remains you could do 100k+ on a lithium battery if you were prepared to charge it more and more often as its (already marginal) range decreases.

Define marginal. Most new EVs now have a range of more than 250 miles

Lithium batteries do conk out, it's not a matter of if, just when.

EV batteries are not "just" lithium batteries. They use complex software management to ensure that they do not just "conk out".

In that respect alone an older EV is a very risky buy.

No more than that dodgy banger where the alternator fails, the battery won't charge and has a radiator and oil leak.

 

[DRM]

"Pride and joy"? You're meant to be renting your car out, not your child!

Mind you, children seem to need emptying of waste after every trip. And before. And repeatedly during. Yet people still seem to like them.

So your prepared to spend £45,000 to £50,000 on a Tesla Model 3 and be chuffed to bits when it comes back wrecked, yeah whatever

 

[icowden]

So your prepared to spend £45,000 to £50,000 on a Tesla Model 3 and be chuffed to bits when it comes back wrecked, yeah whatever

Why would it come back wrecked? That's what the camera is for. I would imagine that Tesla will have their own app and when registering you will have to provide a card that allows them to draw a hefty damage deposit if you aren't well behaved. Don't forget it can also alert the owner if there is an issue and call the police if needed.

 

[Andy in Germany]

So your prepared to spend £45,000 to £50,000 on a Tesla Model 3 and be chuffed to bits when it comes back wrecked, yeah whatever

I think I'd be more worried at the suspiciously high return Musk has suggested would be possible from a Robotaxi, as well as how long ago those were supposed to be out running.