Are we being forced to go electric?

[icowden]

I guess there may be some on here willing to buy an expensive electric car for their 17 yr old so perhaps they can answer your question more accurately.

I just did a test using compare the market. To insure my daughter as a new driver with no named driver experience, no no claims bonus on an eFiat - £2015. On a second hand 2012 Fiat it was £1165 with a box fitted and very high excess (£800) or £1815 with normal excess and box fitted. So the EV bit doesn't make that much difference. It's more the value of the new car vs the old second hand car.

 

[midlife]

For young drivers a more expensive car can be cheaper to insure. The thinking is that they will take a bit more care of a new car whilst taking risks in a banger.

 

[CXRAndy]

Had a trip into the local town via the canal on the ebike. Lovely 10 miles, see the swans and thier little UN's.

On the way back I went via some quiet lanes met the wife at the pub and this was in the car park.

Disabled badge owner. RS etron GT

 

[Jameshow]

It’s a complex algorithm based on the basics of the car (body style / power etc) but then actual cost of repairs, claims per ‘000s and incidents/accidents/theft.

Add to this the individual insurance companies appetite for risk for that sector, declared primary driver gender, age, personal history, post code etc and then they come up with a magic figure that bamboozles us !!

What ever you do don't ask an insurance bod these questions as you'll loose the will to live! Or you could tape it and sell as a cure for insomnia!

 

[Jameshow]

For young drivers a more expensive car can be cheaper to insure. The thinking is that they will take a bit more care of a new car whilst taking risks in a banger.

My 18yo son had our 20yo polo crashed it into my boss(don't ask!) Then got a swift sport which was a rusty bucket so px for a mini cooper s same insurance cost despite the bump!!

Just paying for maintaining it now!🤣🤣🤣

 

[Pale Rider]

Disabled badge owner. RS etron GT

Whatever the owner's disability, it's clearly not in the wallet.

 

[CXRAndy]

Whatever the owner's disability, it's clearly not in the wallet.

Good on them. Not my favourite car, prefer the Porsche Taycan Turismo

 

[icowden]

Good on them. Not my favourite car, prefer the Porsche Taycan Turismo

My issues with the Audi e-Tron were several :

1. Their showroom staff rudely ignored me as soon as they found out a direct sale wasn't on the cards)
2. Their showroom staff couldn't actually show me an example of the car I was interested in because they have 57 different "models" of the same car*
3. It had no creativity at all. It was very much "we've stuck a battery in an Audi".

*Currently I can choose from the Q8 e-tron estate (2022), the Q8 e-tron sportback (2022), the Q4 e-tron estate (2021), the Q4 e-tron sportbakc (2021) or the e-tron gt saloon (2021). All built on the MEB platform, so really it's just how curvy and swanky you want it.

Currently my company choices are Audi, BMW, Citroen, Cupra, DS, Fiat, Jeep, Mercedes, Mini, Nissan, Peugeot, Polestar, Renault, Skoda, VW and Volvo. Tesla and Hyundai are still AWOL. Still - I have another 3 years yet...

 

[lazybloke]

Not really. We have established that "fuel efficiency" is a nonsense and come up with a better idea to replace liquid fuels. At the moment it is in its infancy and the battery tech is big and heavy. I have no doubt that in 10 years time we will be looking at lighter batteries that are faster to recharge and hold more power, when compared to current batteries.


My car doesn't do any miles to the gallon :-(

I must be missing some context, because energy efficiency sounds like a good thing to me.

 

[icowden]

I must be missing some context, because energy efficiency sounds like a good thing to me.

Fuel efficiency is only talked about in respect of ICE cars. The most fuel efficient engines turn about 40% of the fuel you put in the car into useful energy. The rest is lost to heat and friction. With e-fuels you create fuel from renewable sources but you still set fire to it and use the explosions so you still lose most of the energy you put into it. You also still have to freight e-fuel to service stations.

In comparison an EV is around 90% energy efficient (energy efficiency because there is only energy, not fuel). Almost all of the energy you put in is used to propel the car with only a tiny amount being lost to friction. No heat, no explosions. Oh - and you can get energy almost anywhere if you wait long enough.

So fuel efficiency is good but only as good as a combustion engine. Energy efficiency is much, much better and with EVs it is here to stay (IMHO),

https://theicct.org/e-fuels-wont-sa...nd the problem, according,sun or wind is lost.

 

[Jameshow]

Fuel efficiency is only talked about in respect of ICE cars. The most fuel efficient engines turn about 40% of the fuel you put in the car into useful energy. The rest is lost to heat and friction. With e-fuels you create fuel from renewable sources but you still set fire to it and use the explosions so you still lose most of the energy you put into it. You also still have to freight e-fuel to service stations.

In comparison an EV is around 90% energy efficient (energy efficiency because there is only energy, not fuel). Almost all of the energy you put in is used to propel the car with only a tiny amount being lost to friction. No heat, no explosions. Oh - and you can get energy almost anywhere if you wait long enough.

So fuel efficiency is good but only as good as a combustion engine. Energy efficiency is much, much better and with EVs it is here to stay (IMHO),

https://theicct.org/e-fuels-wont-sa...nd the problem, according,sun or wind is lost.

But 50% of that ev fuel is made using combustion. Then put through numerous transformers / battery storage each of which are only 75% efficient...

 

[CXRAndy]

But 50% of that ev fuel is made using combustion. Then put through numerous transformers / battery storage each of which are only 75% efficient...

Transformers are highly efficient, usually 99.7% efficient for large industrial sizes.

50% is better than zero from the fossil industry- this figure is constantly growing. Many countries are working for 90% in the next decade including the UK

 

[CXRAndy]

My issues with the Audi e-Tron were several :

1. Their showroom staff rudely ignored me as soon as they found out a direct sale wasn't on the cards)
2. Their showroom staff couldn't actually show me an example of the car I was interested in because they have 57 different "models" of the same car*
3. It had no creativity at all. It was very much "we've stuck a battery in an Audi".

*Currently I can choose from the Q8 e-tron estate (2022), the Q8 e-tron sportback (2022), the Q4 e-tron estate (2021), the Q4 e-tron sportbakc (2021) or the e-tron gt saloon (2021). All built on the MEB platform, so really it's just how curvy and swanky you want it.

Currently my company choices are Audi, BMW, Citroen, Cupra, DS, Fiat, Jeep, Mercedes, Mini, Nissan, Peugeot, Polestar, Renault, Skoda, VW and Volvo. Tesla and Hyundai are still AWOL. Still - I have another 3 years yet...

I dont like audi attitude either. Ive owned Audi in the past and had poor experience with warranty, so wont touch them again. Besides they are late to the EV game, are in the maintaining the ICE camp going

 

[figbat]

Transformers are highly efficient, usually 99.7% efficient for large industrial sizes.

50% is better than zero from the fossil industry- this figure is constantly growing. Many countries are working for 90% in the next decade including the UK

Not only that, but the portion of electricity that is generated from fired power stations comes from sources that are constantly being fettled and managed for peak efficiency. An ICE in a car rarely, if ever, runs at peak efficiency, such are the vagaries of wildly transient duty loads.

 

[Alex321]

Transformers are highly efficient, usually 99.7% efficient for large industrial sizes.

50% is better than zero from the fossil industry- this figure is constantly growing. Many countries are working for 90% in the next decade including the UK

A bit pedantic perhaps, but I think you mean "shrinking" rather than 'Growing", and 10% rather than 90%, given that "the figure" is % from fossil fuels.