Are we being forced to go electric?

[MrGrumpy]

I think they will struggle, Tesla and the chinese companies have a lead on technology, better integration with battery technology and start from a clean sheet. Companies like Toyota have to play catch-up and build their EV business, while sustaining the ICE business where they make some profits, but which is in terminal decline, and service a pile of debt. I don't think anyone will want an ICE by 2030. I wouldn't buy one new now. If I buy another ICE, it will be a cheap 2nd hand stop-gap until I can get a cheap BYD, model 2 etc.

I think there be enough interest, might pick up a nice bargain . Second hand market might actually go nuts!

 

[MrGrumpy]

Interesting program on Prime regards Jaguar electrifying with the Ipace . I’ve heard some not so good stories since as this was filmed 2017/18 . A glimpse of the future from back then .

 

[CXRAndy]

EV ownership picking up tremendously

 

[Pale Rider]

EV ownership picking up tremendously
View attachment 688961

All good stuff, but I'm not sure why electric car owners see it as a battle with ICE car owners.

The figures are merely a self-fulfilling prophecy.

'Let's legislate against ICE cars and see what happens.'

'Oo look, sales have increased, so it must have been a good idea.'

 

[FishFright]

EV ownership picking up tremendously
View attachment 688961

Its good to see the UK not at the bottom of something for a change.
I see growing number of EV's in my area which isn't what you call an affluent area.
And all this before any serious legislation kicks in.

 

[cougie uk]

All good stuff, but I'm not sure why electric car owners see it as a battle with ICE car owners.

The figures are merely a self-fulfilling prophecy.

'Let's legislate against ICE cars and see what happens.'

'Oo look, sales have increased, so it must have been a good idea.'

Are you seeing it as a battle with electric car owners ?

 

[Pale Rider]

Are you seeing it as a battle with electric car owners ?

Ah, a good old CC wind up.

That takes me back.

 

[FishFright]

Are you seeing it as a battle with electric car owners ?

He'll report you if you don't agree with him. Admitted it on the other place.

 

[icowden]

Ah, a good old CC wind up.
That takes me back.

Not really. Most of us don't see it as a war. The main tenet of this thread is that no-one is forcing you to go electric, but you might be better off doing so, as might the environment, and soonish, ICE cars will be history...

 

[Pale Rider]

Not really. Most of us don't see it as a war. The main tenet of this thread is that no-one is forcing you to go electric, but you might be better off doing so, as might the environment, and soonish, ICE cars will be history...

We are being forced to go electric by the legislation, or at least some of us are.

Buyers who like new cars will have to buy an electric when the time comes.

Financially, it still makes no sense to me.

The electric car buying premium will mean you are worse off both immediately and over the years - unless you do a huge mileage in it.

The environmental/social benefits are also questionable.

Tail pipe emissions swapped for use of increasingly precious metals, often mined in appalling conditions for those doing the digging.

At least oil rig workers usually earn a nice few quid.

The most environmentally friendly car is the one you already have, but of course that's not very sexy.

On balance I like the UK's approach to phasing out ICE, and I hope we stick to it.

Didn't the EU recently row back a little on their plans?

In politics and big business, nothing is done until it's done.

 

[icowden]

We are being forced to go electric by the legislation, or at least some of us are.

Fair enough.

Buyers who like new cars will have to buy an electric when the time comes.

Agreed.

The electric car buying premium will mean you are worse off both immediately and over the years - unless you do a huge mileage in it.

You don't have to do a huge mileage. Car prices are on their way down. Tesla is putting the pressure on.

The environmental/social benefits are also questionable.

Not really.

Tail pipe emissions swapped for use of increasingly precious metals, often mined in appalling conditions for those doing the digging.

Yes, and none of those precious metals are used in ICE cars, your phone and computer. Yadda yadda yadda. Battery tech is improving and precious metal usage will reduce.

The most environmentally friendly car is the one you already have, but of course that's not very sexy.

I had a 10 year old Renault Scenic which drank Diesel. It used to cost me £100 to fill up. I now have a clean ID4 which costs me £6.22 to refuel. My fuel bill is reduced from about £2600 per year to about £646 per year. Over the 4 years of the lease, I will save £8,000 on fuel costs (or thereabouts depending on electricity prices). I can also drive in ULEZ zones without charge (which is nice). Over 10 years, that car will be £20,000 cheaper to run than a Diesel for the same mileage. It's far safer and much nicer to drive. Visibility is excellent.

For me there is no contest.

On balance I like the UK's approach to phasing out ICE, and I hope we stick to it.
Didn't the EU recently row back a little on their plans?

Yes. I think it was led by Germany where a number of ICE Car manufacturers are based. It's like there's some sort of connection.

In politics and big business, nothing is done until it's done.

True. But the market is also king and any hesitant ICE vendor will get steamrollered by the EV giants.

 

[Pale Rider]

I had a 10 year old Renault Scenic which drank Diesel.

All cars come to and sometime, but replacing a car which is only a few years old and has lots of life in it is thoroughly environmentally unfriendly.

The new car is a needless use of all the raw materials used to build it, and then there is the criss-crossing around the world.on gas guzzling cargo ships of the materials used to build the car.

I worked out there were four or five countries involved in the building of my Cmax - gearbox from here, engine from there, body panels pressed somewhere else, and final assembly in yet another location.

 

[icowden]

All cars come to and sometime, but replacing a car which is only a few years old and has lots of life in it is thoroughly environmentally unfriendly.
The new car is a needless use of all the raw materials used to build it, and then there is the criss-crossing around the world.on gas guzzling cargo ships of the materials used to build the car.

That said - the old car is usually still used after being purchased second hand. It's rare that old cars just disappear.

I worked out there were four or five countries involved in the building of my Cmax - gearbox from here, engine from there, body panels pressed somewhere else, and final assembly in yet another location.

That's common. One of the reasons for the delay in getting my ID4 was that there was a semiconductor shortage in China and a parts shortage due to the Ukraine war. ICE companies traditionally make and buy parts from all over the world. That's why Tesla make their own.

 

[CXRAndy]

often mined in appalling conditions for those doing the digging

DRC was already digging way before electric vehicles began to be a viable project.

You cannot force the desperate not to want to improve their life, however dangerous they feel the task is.

Many battery manufacturers are developing different chemical cell designs. Sodium has shown some promise, but there is more work required.

Teslas battery contains only 2.1% of lithium. Cobalt it's around 3%

Cobalt is used widely in the refining of fossil fuels to extract sulphur from the end product.

Lithium has been used in batteries for decades before EVs appeared

 

[classic33]

That said - the old car is usually still used after being purchased second hand. It's rare that old cars just disappear.

That's common. One of the reasons for the delay in getting my ID4 was that there was a semiconductor shortage in China and a parts shortage due to the Ukraine war. ICE companies traditionally make and buy parts from all over the world. That's why Tesla make their own.

List of a few parts shared with other manufacturer's.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a16570798/tesla-model-s-parts-other-cars-have/