Rusty Nails
We remember
- Location
- Living in the slow lane
I would hazard a guess that you are in a very small minority, both in the general population and the cycling population.
Are we being forced to go electric?
- Thread starter gavroche
- Start date
- Status
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
I would hazard a guess that you are in a very small minority, both in the general population and the cycling population.
Me too. Had to drive in twice this week because of ice and hated it. Felt dreadful all day, couldn’t get parked, cost me money and sat in a jam on the way home. Thoroughly miserable experience!
cougie uk
Guru
Weird how on the car adverts the roads are always empty?
They should be made to show the truth.
EV adverts could show queues of cars in clear non polluted streets
whereas ICE adverts showing a clouds of soot, smog lingering in the streets- folk coughing and vomiting from all the pollution
This is true, although it is also true to note that NOx is much more harmful than CO2 (298 times as bad) as it has a radiative effect and takes a long time to break down. Methane is only 28 times as bad as CO2. NOx is a major pollutant and component of smog and is irritating to the eyes and respiratory tract. So although the reduction in NOx and hydroxyl means that less methane is inhibited and therefore an increase in methane, that still looks better than continuing to belch out NOx.
This one is a bit disingenuous. EVs have no emissions and do not increase ground level ozone. There are numerous studies that have found the reverse. However they do "increase" ozone if you measure from fuel generation and tailpipe when compared to ICE cars depending on how the fuel is created. If your country is using coal, oil and gas to make electricity then EVs create more ozone per km than ICE. The answer therefore is to push for more renewables and stop using coal, oil and gas to make electricity. It's also important to note that power station emissions are dispersed around the country rather than being delivered straight into urban areas and primary schools.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/cind.818_3.x
But it's more likely that they are making it better, but with some side effects as we are weaned off oil. If we all switch to EVs and renewables the world will have to go cold turkey and will have withdrawal symptoms, but it's still better in the long run than continuing to set things on fire.
ClichéGuevara
Legendary Member
- Location
- Kingston upon the River Hull
When you try to compare NOx to CO2, you are comparing apples to oranges, and showing that you have a very limited understanding of the issues. Generally, NOx is a local health issue, whilst CO2 arguably impacts on the climate. NOx emissions can indirectly impact on the climate as explained on the link I posted.
Ozone is more harmful than NOx. An increase in EV's will reduce NOx, which in turn will contribute to increased ground level ozone, but not through the mechanisms you mention.
Your comments on power stations is lacking a few essential details.
The world will get warmer whatever we do, we are still coming out of one of the coldest periods this planet has experienced. The measures proposed could perhaps delay that by a small amount, although that is debatable for reasons mentioned in the article, among others.
Fastpedaller
Über Member
I haven't read the previous 217 pages, so forgive me if It's already been asked.......
How much extra cost/damage is likely to result from the weight of EV being much higher than ICE vehicles?
How much extra cost/damage is likely to result from the weight of EV being much higher than ICE vehicles?
Have you got some studies we can look at? I provided a link to C&I's analysis of a study which suggests electric cars create almost twice as much ozone per km than ICE cars and which explains why.
Here's a link to a study by NRDC:
https://www.nrdc.org/experts/luke-t...cles-can-dramatically-reduce-carbon-pollution
Here's another one from Northwestern University published in Science Daily:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190412122912.htm
ANother one from NCBI:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7567144/
COmmentary https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2220923120:
” Princeton’s Net-Zero America report, which Mayfield worked on, estimates that switching entirely to EVs powered by renewable or other zero-carbon electricity would avoid up to 170,000 premature deaths and $1.5 trillion in damages (mostly from the avoided deaths) by 2050 (1). The 2035 Report 2.0 from Energy Innovation and the University of California (UC), Berkeley, estimates 150,000 avoided deaths and $1.3 trillion in lower environmental and health costs by 2050 (2). “I don’t think there is any doubt that if we electrify vehicles and green the grid, we are going to see tremendous health benefits,” says Horton. Even with an electricity grid like today’s, in which 61% of power is generated by burning fossil fuels, swapping out just one-quarter of all vehicles for electrics would avoid nearly $17 billion in damages, Horton’s modeling shows (3). A grid with more renewable energy inputs will further enhance the health benefits.
- Location
- The Cronk
Last warning folks. Any more negative comments aimed at other members and we will thread ban those making them.
FishFright
More wheels than sense
We should be entering a cooling period right now. Currently we are in an intra ace age period and not an inter ice age period,
tinywheels
Über Member
- Location
- South of hades
but wot about the children digging up the rare metals needed to build the accursed vehicles?
The sourcing of materials is an issue. But the same materials (albeit in differing quantities) are used in many other sectors including the manufacture of ICE vehicles. I think we all agree that we need to find better solutions. The race to improve battery tech should mean that this happens much more quickly. Tesla are trying to move away from Lithium and Cobalt. New ideas for battery tech are emerging almost monthly.
cyberknight
As long as I breathe, I attack.
- Location
- Land of confusion
seemed ok when i used the car to go to work wednesday , mind you i was out the door just after 4,30 am
To be honest, this post was
The claim that fossil fuel reduction would have adverse effect as Methane will rise is new to me. Read the article and others it looks kosher. However it appears that scientists are advocating even more aggressive Methane gas reduction measures rather than impede the reduction of fossil fuel consumption to counter the effects of moving away from fossil fuel use.
Historically we know what smog is with London having 2 major episodes as well other urban cities. Even without the climate argument, we all know that fossil fuel use has only direction to go. And EVs are the obvious practical answer.
The trouble with this thread is that the active advocates ( I count only 3) of moving to EVs now, do not realise the vast majority of us have signed up to the positive effective of EVs long time ago. We do want to save the planet. They also fail to comprehend that most of us are not ready because of other limiting factors. So it goes in circles.
The claim that fossil fuel reduction would have adverse effect as Methane will rise is new to me. Read the article and others it looks kosher. However it appears that scientists are advocating even more aggressive Methane gas reduction measures rather than impede the reduction of fossil fuel consumption to counter the effects of moving away from fossil fuel use.
Historically we know what smog is with London having 2 major episodes as well other urban cities. Even without the climate argument, we all know that fossil fuel use has only direction to go. And EVs are the obvious practical answer.
The trouble with this thread is that the active advocates ( I count only 3) of moving to EVs now, do not realise the vast majority of us have signed up to the positive effective of EVs long time ago. We do want to save the planet. They also fail to comprehend that most of us are not ready because of other limiting factors. So it goes in circles.
Last edited:
- Status