Are we being forced to go electric?

[Electric_Andy]

Run the cable down the lamppost off the edge of the pavement, along the gutter and up into your car

I'm not sure that's safe though is it? Do you see how many people kerb their wheels when parking, or drop up/down kerbs? Any cable laying on the road in any semi-busy place is going to get damaged very quickly. Maybe something simple could be installed along the entire pavement, like metal guides to keep the cable off the road, but otherwsie I can see a lot of damaged cables and possibly some electrocuted ankles

 

[classic33]

Wowsers £1 a minute ! Unplugging your car is going to be the new fag break !

Unplugging, moving and hoping you can find a vacant space once you move.

 

[KnittyNorah]

That's never the case. We keep trying to explain the difference between rapid charging (69-80p) and fast charging (same price as normal tariffs)

Just get one. If you can't get one petition the Council to install one. It's that easy.


Yes, I live in such a town. You keep talking about large towns and cities. Large is Luton, Reading, Bolton, Blackpool, Middlesbrough, Swindon, Stockport. Also town is often synonymous with Cities such as London, Bristol, Leeds, Birmingham etc. Small towns tend to have more parking and more space.


You're right. We have relatively few charging points compared with say Brighton or Portsmouth or that there London. We should be trying much harder. Shetland has more charging points than Walton on Thames!

The nearest fast charging (22kW) to my home costs 57p/kWh so little saving on the rapid rate and approaching three times more expensive than the current price cap (20.8p/kWh) on domestic tariffs.

People can't 'just get one' if they don't have off street parking adjacent to their house. As for petitioning the council, petition all you want but it won't get you anything extra that isn't in their budget - well, not in most of the UK it doesn't. Council budgets are very, very tight indeed. Getting a light erected on a footpath which runs behind the library and is a short cut from a local housing estate to the coop and a main road with a bus stop was a hard-won battle. 'I want a charging point for my ev' is not going to get them rushing about to help - why should it?

Have you thought that perhaps - just perhaps - you don't need many public charging points where you are - you've already been clear that where you live, most people have driveways. Very, very different to large parts of the country ... There are parts of the country which are 'charging deserts', and many local authorities are slow to act in this matter. It is also, to some extent, a chicken and egg situation; if a person cannot access a charger conveniently and cheaply, they will not buy an ev, as it will be no use for them uncharged. If there are very few evs in an area, there is no reason for councils or chargepoint installers to invest money in the installation of chargers.
And there are millions of households who cannot have their own charger installed and some form of public, on-street charging will be essential for them.

This article in the Guardian is reasonably optimistic, but there are warning bells jangling especially in the provision of non-rapid on-street chargers.

 

[KnittyNorah]

I'm not sure that's safe though is it? Do you see how many people kerb their wheels when parking, or drop up/down kerbs? Any cable laying on the road in any semi-busy place is going to get damaged very quickly. Maybe something simple could be installed along the entire pavement, like metal guides to keep the cable off the road, but otherwsie I can see a lot of damaged cables and possibly some electrocuted ankles

Wireless charging would be the safe and reliable answer to the on-street charging problem, surely.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

View: https://youtu.be/iyuarUbCFCI

 

[KnittyNorah]

A question ... if I run out of fuel in an ICE vehicle (and it did happen a few times, to my chagrin, in 40-plus years of driving many many thousands of miles in various countries and landscapes!) I can set off down the road on foot/flag down a friendly motorist/call my rescue service/phone my nearest and dearest/whatever and then, a variable amount of time later and at some unspecified expense to myself, a jerrycan of petrol will arrive, enough to get me to the petrol station to fill up properly.
What happens if I run out of fuel in an EV? I can't trot off down the road and return with a jerrycan full of electricity ... will rescue organisations carry (or tow?) generators or powerbanks in order to give my batteries sufficient boost to get to the nearest chargepoint?
Or ...????

 

[Dadam]

will rescue organisations carry (or tow?) generators or powerbanks in order to give my batteries sufficient boost to get to the nearest chargepoint?
Or ...????

Yes. They do already

 

[geocycle]

If you run out of electric despite the warning messages then it would have to be RAC who can give a boost to get to a charge point.

I also noted the comment about cables across streets, one council Oxford perhaps, was looking into a removable metal channel cover that runs across a gully in the pavement.

There is lots to think about but most Issues will be resolved including the price of vehicles when we have a second hand market and supply catches up with demand.

There are elements of this thread that remind me of rim versus disc brakes debates, the tide turned toward discs a few years ago despite protests, we are not quite at that stage yet with EVs.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Yes. They do already

Thanks - that's interesting - and on reading the blurb about it, one particular statement

Many EVs can’t be towed normally and need to be transported with all wheels off the ground which usually requires a flatbed vehicle.

concerned me. If, on a narrow country lane - or any other awkward spot, for that matter - an EV gets 'stuck' (I'm thinking of verges softer than you expected, stuff like that) would it be possible to get either a conventional tow or a push 'out of trouble' as it were? If the actual engine, drive train, powers supply etc are all OK? Or would that require a flat-bed to move it?

 

[CXRAndy]

And you expect the companies placing these chargers, on streets, to keep changing them?

Isn't it five different leads/connections in common use at the moment.

No there are 3 but actually 2

1. Type 2 for home charging and some older Tesla (being replaced with CCS)
2. CCS which actually incorporates the type 2 socket
3. Chademo-Nissan proprietary connection (being phased out for CCS)

1,2 are combined

 

[Gillstay]

I suspect many people (I have no idea if it is most people or just quite a few) feel that the time taken to fill up outweighs the inefficiency of dragging around the extra weight of a full tank.

Until your remarks in this thread, I had never even considered there might be any people who would prefer NOT to completely fill every time, unless they simply couldn't afford to. It just seemed so normal to me that it is what I automatically do, and I know it is also what my wife does, both of us doing it so automatically that we have never felt the need to say anything about it.

But we may be unusual, and I just never realised.

I have never filled a car up fully. Liquids are heavy and cost a lot to cart around. But then I also take out any spare seats I have. The car is meant to do 48 mpg max and it never falls to that.

 

[icowden]

People can't 'just get one' if they don't have off street parking adjacent to their house. As for petitioning the council, petition all you want but it won't get you anything extra that isn't in their budget - well, not in most of the UK it doesn't. Council budgets are very, very tight indeed. Getting a light erected on a footpath which runs behind the library and is a short cut from a local housing estate to the coop and a main road with a bus stop was a hard-won battle. 'I want a charging point for my ev' is not going to get them rushing about to help - why should it?

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Those lamp post chargers - some money goes to the electricity company, some to the operator and more importantly
some to the council.
Also Government Grants. They don't have to pay for it!
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ctric-vehicles-guidance-for-local-authorities
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There are parts of the country which are 'charging deserts', and many local authorities are slow to act in this matter

Mention profit and government grants to them. They will prick up their ears...

. It is also, to some extent, a chicken and egg situation; if a person cannot access a charger conveniently and cheaply, they will not buy an ev, as it will be no use for them uncharged. If there are very few evs in an area, there is no reason for councils or chargepoint installers to invest money in the installation of chargers.

It's the reverse. The demand for EVs will fuel a need to add chargers to make that £££££££££££££

 

[KnittyNorah]

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Those lamp post chargers - some money goes to the electricity company, some to the operator and more importantly
some to the council.
Also Government Grants. They don't have to pay for it!
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ctric-vehicles-guidance-for-local-authorities
£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££


Mention profit and government grants to them. They will prick up their ears...


It's the reverse. The demand for EVs will fuel a need to add chargers to make that £££££££££££££

I disagree.
Not with the facts as are presented in your link, but with the likely response from many (clearly not all) councils. Also with your assertion that it is 'the reverse' in what I called the chicken and egg situation as I do not believe there will be a demand for EVs from people who can see no way of charging them conveniently and economically.

 

[Jenkins]

I do wonder why hybrids are not being pushed/talked about more than pure Evs? It seems to be the best of both worlds; use the electric around town, switch to petrol/diesel on longer runs where you'd likely be getting 50+mpg and charging the internal battery at the same time? IMHO it is a step-change (management bingo anyone?) where you can wean people off pure fossil fuel cars over a longer period. Also pollution will be restricted to out of town (not perfect I know, but would at least reduce city pollution). Given the fact that I probably get 30mpg around town, and 60mpg on a longer run, the usage alone could drop my 50%. But you're not then forcing people to chnage to pure EV which they may be wary of, and might not suit their needs for now

We run Hyundai Ioniq PHEVs as pool cars at work. As an electric car they have small batteries with a limited range of about 30-35 miles due to having to lug around a big lump of aluminium and other metals (engine/drivetrain). As petrol cars, they're inefficient as they have to lug around a heavy battery pack and associated electronics. There's much less interior space due to having to store two different power units.
A dedicated, more efficient fully electric car or slightly smaller and more efficient petrol only would make much more sense than this botched compromise

 

[icowden]

If, on a narrow country lane - or any other awkward spot, for that matter - an EV gets 'stuck' (I'm thinking of verges softer than you expected, stuff like that) would it be possible to get either a conventional tow or a push 'out of trouble' as it were? If the actual engine, drive train, powers supply etc are all OK? Or would that require a flat-bed to move it?

As long as the car will go into neutral it won't mind a push or tow out of trouble. It's longer distances that can be a problem