Zwift Chat

[<Tommy>]

Well at the risk of making you all hate me...I found that pretty OK actually (I resisted saying easy!) I found the pace of the main B group quite comfortable compared to the TDZ races - until the last couple of miles when it really ramped up.

Kudos to @berty bassett for doing it two nights in a row - good to keep seeing your name pop up!

Sorry you couldn't make it @TurboTommy - I hope your daughter is OK

Yeah all good thanks bud. Just your average winter bug. Sorry I missed the race really. I’ll be trying to do one tomorrow afternoon if anyone’s spotted a good one.

I dream of ‘quite comfortable!’

 

[Marino.g]

My god that was hard .. and I was only in D

Well done Ben, nice to have a fellow D rider to join the team.

 

[Freelanderuk]

I should be back with you for the next one ,still have this chest infection and a few other things to sort but getting there

 

[CXRAndy]

Yesterdays event, surprisingly, I didnt come last in the B's A fair way down and the only rider to have a W/kg less than 3. If I performed at around 3 I would of shaved about 2 mins off. Hopefully it was just a bad day!

 

[Brusgaard]

Same next week, or a different race? I can't do Tuesday next week but can do Wednesday or Monday. I don't see any Hare and Hounds yet in the schedule for Tuesday but I assume it will turn up over the weekend.

Seems like Thursday is a better choice, if you want to go faster with less effort in the H&H races.
The signups across A, B and C were twice or triple that of Wednesday. Tuesday is usually the busiest day on Zwift, and then people rest (active or in-active) Wednesday, and then back to racing on Thursday, which fits the above observation perfectly.

The front B-blob Thursday was around 70 people, at least the first 30 minutes (I dropped out of Zwift to ride on Bkool, so don't know what happened after that), and of course that's a significant speed booster.

 

[Whorty]

Seems like Thursday is a better choice, if you want to go faster with less effort in the H&H races.
The signups across A, B and C were twice or triple that of Wednesday. Tuesday is usually the busiest day on Zwift, and then people rest (active or in-active) Wednesday, and then back to racing on Thursday, which fits the above observation perfectly.

The front B-blob Thursday was around 70 people, at least the first 30 minutes (I dropped out of Zwift to ride on Bkool, so don't know what happened after that), and of course that's a significant speed booster.

Thursday will be good for me too It's only Tuesday I can't do next week so hopefully whatever course we get next week will not just be Tuesday

 

[bridgy]

Seems like Thursday is a better choice, if you want to go faster with less effort in the H&H races.
The signups across A, B and C were twice or triple that of Wednesday. Tuesday is usually the busiest day on Zwift, and then people rest (active or in-active) Wednesday, and then back to racing on Thursday, which fits the above observation perfectly.

The front B-blob Thursday was around 70 people, at least the first 30 minutes (I dropped out of Zwift to ride on Bkool, so don't know what happened after that), and of course that's a significant speed booster.

Lee did both Wednesday and Thursday races and his overall times were only 5 seconds apart (5 seconds quicker on Wednesday), so it might be a bit early to say Thursday will always be quicker (although I appreciate he may have been more tired on Thursday). There's always going to be a bit of luck involved if one race turns out to be quicker than another if we're not all doing the same event - but it's good to have multiple start time/day options so as many people as possible can join in.

But, the difference in speed may just come down to who turns up and how hard they ride at the front of your group, as much as the draft benefit from a bigger group. There's going to be a limit on how much draft benefit you get from a group - it can't just get bigger and bigger with more riders, or we'd all be going super-human speeds in the huge participation events and getting PR's in literally every segment. I'm sure once you get over a certain number of riders in a group there's no extra drafting benefit to be had - although a bigger group may be easier to stay with, and if you get dropped there may be more riders to ride with.

 

[CXRAndy]

A big blob does work for speed. I did a an event last year, cant remember Zsun or Kiss. It wasn't a race but an hour speed event. The group worked together and no one surged to force the pace, but the pace was high. I think we average nearly 28mph for an hour.

Racing is a bit different, trying to beat/break each other

 

[bridgy]

A big blob does work for speed. I did a an event last year, cant remember Zsun or Kiss. It wasn't a race but an hour speed event. The group worked together and no one surged to force the pace, but the pace was high. I think we average nearly 28mph for an hour.

Racing is a bit different, trying to beat/break each other

Yeah I'm not disputing that - I'm just saying there must be a limit to this benefit - it can't just get exponentially bigger as the group gets bigger

 

[Brusgaard]

Lee did both Wednesday and Thursday races and his overall times were only 5 seconds apart (5 seconds quicker on Wednesday), so it might be a bit early to say Thursday will always be quicker (although I appreciate he may have been more tired on Thursday). There's always going to be a bit of luck involved if one race turns out to be quicker than another if we're not all doing the same event - but it's good to have multiple start time/day options so as many people as possible can join in.

But, the difference in speed may just come down to who turns up and how hard they ride at the front of your group, as much as the draft benefit from a bigger group. There's going to be a limit on how much draft benefit you get from a group - it can't just get bigger and bigger with more riders, or we'd all be going super-human speeds in the huge participation events and getting PR's in literally every segment. I'm sure once you get over a certain number of riders in a group there's no extra drafting benefit to be had - although a bigger group may be easier to stay with, and if you get dropped there may be more riders to ride with.

As we saw in the TdZ rides, number of riders can significantly impact the results. In the H&H B-CAT on Wednesday, 11 (ZP) riders finished within 1 minute of the fastest, on Thursday it was 32. So, as you say, being in a bigger blob mean going faster/easier and more to ride with if dropped.

But yes, a bit of luck, tactics and who's willing to pull are all factors. But all things being equal, I still think the number of riders have a huge impact, and doing the race on Tuesday or Thursday is best, if you want a big blob.

Don't think the ZHR H&H races are available Tuesday anyway, but some of those <70kg CC'ers want a hillier course, so maybe we should choose another race (type) next week to cater their needs?

 

[<Tommy>]

Also more people in a race means if you get dropped from the lead group you have more chance of joining secondary groups of bigger sizes than in a smaller field race. Therefore possibly limiting loses a bit more.

 

[bridgy]

As we saw in the TdZ rides, number of riders can significantly impact the results. In the H&H B-CAT on Wednesday, 11 (ZP) riders finished within 1 minute of the fastest, on Thursday it was 32. So, as you say, being in a bigger blob mean going faster/easier and more to ride with if dropped.

But yes, a bit of luck, tactics and who's willing to pull are all factors. But all things being equal, I still think the number of riders have a huge impact, and doing the race on Tuesday or Thursday is best, if you want a big blob.

Don't think the ZHR H&H races are available Tuesday anyway, but some of those <70kg CC'ers want a hillier course, so maybe we should choose another race (type) next week to cater their needs?

Yeah good idea - main reason for choosing the Hare & Hounds race anyway was just that it repeated the same course on different days/times t give as many people as possible the chance to join in. We'll have to wait a couple more days to see if we can find a similar option of multiple races on a hillier course next week. If not, we may have to just pick a time and day that suits most people. Personally, Tuesday, Thursday or Friday are best for me - I'll rarely manage Monday or Wednesday

 

[Whorty]

As we saw in the TdZ rides, number of riders can significantly impact the results. In the H&H B-CAT on Wednesday, 11 (ZP) riders finished within 1 minute of the fastest, on Thursday it was 32. So, as you say, being in a bigger blob mean going faster/easier and more to ride with if dropped.

But yes, a bit of luck, tactics and who's willing to pull are all factors. But all things being equal, I still think the number of riders have a huge impact, and doing the race on Tuesday or Thursday is best, if you want a big blob.

Don't think the ZHR H&H races are available Tuesday anyway, but some of those <70kg CC'ers want a hillier course, so maybe we should choose another race (type) next week to cater their needs?

The benefit of the H&H is it's the same race run over different times and different days. I assume these are all flattish as group riding doesn't really work on the hills. Are there other races that are run over different days/times to allow as many CCers as possible to take part?

 

[bridgy]

In other news, I asked on Zwiftpower about the differences we see in timings on-screen in Zwift and then on Zwiftpower results.

The answer seems to be that the time you see pop up on screen at the end (and the clock at the top of the screen during the ride) are locally calculated on your PC, so can often be affected by slight (or large) lags at your end during the race. The time used by Zwiftpower however comes direct from Zwift, and is therefore not affected by lags on your computer and is the correct time to use.

 

[Brusgaard]

The benefit of the H&H is it's the same race run over different times and different days. I assume these are all flattish as group riding doesn't really work on the hills. Are there other races that are run over different days/times to allow as many CCers as possible to take part?

If using the same course, and same amount of laps, it would not matter who's arranging the race.

If not possible, I know another platform, which offers private races and even ghosts.