Zwift Chat

[<Tommy>]

Thanks both.

I do feel a tinge of guilt for setting my best times on stages 2 and 3 outside of the meet-up events. I’m tempted to suggest that a 2nd effort outside of the meet up shouldn’t be permitted or in some way should be given a time penalty?

Funnily enough this is something I’ve thought about a little. It’s a weird one and to be honest I’m a little conflicted about it.

Basically I agree with you. Generally when you’re not happy with the outcome of a sporting event the participants don’t get a chance at a ‘do over’. I like the live racing, one shot deal type thing

But I’ve had it both ways. One example is last weekend. I couldn’t make stage 2 during the week so I organised a last minute meet up on the Saturday. Luckily for me Paul and lee both joined me or I wouldn’t of got the time I’d of got and I’d of been much further down the league table. If we bring in a penalty for re doing stages neither of them would of joined me. But as a consequence I profit at the expense of you, alongo, and anyone else who couldn’t join us and would fancy hanging in that group.

The flip side is when I’ve beaten people in races. But then they’ve re-done the courses having gained experience from the first run and beaten my time n a second attempt. For example when you and bridgy re did that course last month with the big climb in the middle.

It’s tough isn’t it? Because on the one hand we want to make the league as inclusive as possible by letting people do the races whenever they can. But on the other hand I think it dilutes the competition when people take multiple attempts until they get a time they’re happy with. But as a starting point I feel like we should do away with TT’s or change the rules around them.

I said to berty a few weeks back I’d only have one crack at each stage as I prefer it that way. But that’s up to everyone to decide for themselves.

 

[Whorty]

Sorry to hear that Carl.

Thanks Bob, but it is what it is I'm afraid. It does impact on when I can ride, and for how long, but her health and safety obviously must come first. Hopefully when I pack in work to be a full time carer in January I'll be able to plan riding a bit better - we'll see!

 

[<Tommy>]

@bridgy - I did the 'Sand and Sequoias' route on a training ride last week and thought that'd make a great course for our races. There's 3 climbs (but not too long) that would encourage some aggressive riding and some short sharp 'bumps' that take you by surprise to encourage attacks before a flat run-in.

It might be a bit short though. I think it took me 35-40 mins, so would obviously be quicker at race speed.

I'll update the table now.....

I think me and lee raced that course a few weeks back and it is tough. @bridgy, you’re right it’s on the short side. But if it’s the one I’m thinking of it’s got some hills at the end that should push everyone hard.

maybe it is a little short. Depends how much blood people want to see on the walls😳

 

[Whorty]

Looks like a 25-30 minute route for most (based on the times in our Strava club) - definitley a candidate for a league race but perhaps a bit on the short side for a finale?

You could change the distance so that we do 2 laps ..... it's a very up and down course, a leg sapper n its 2 lap form (having raced it previously).

As for when to ride, I'll always try to do at least one live race a week but can't guarantee that I can always do that due to the obvious, so I'm not in favour of not allowing solo rides to count.

 

[<Tommy>]

You could change the distance so that we do 2 laps ..... it's a very up and down course, a leg sapper n its 2 lap form (having raced it previously).

As for when to ride, I'll always try to do at least one live race a week but can't guarantee that I can always do that due to the obvious, so I'm not in favour of not allowing solo rides to count.

2 laps of that!?

I don’t think that’s what Al is suggesting. I think it’s more about multiple attempts at the same course.

 

[bridgy]

Funnily enough this is something I’ve thought about a little. It’s a weird one and to be honest I’m a little conflicted about it.

Basically I agree with you. Generally when you’re not happy with the outcome of a sporting event the participants don’t get a chance at a ‘do over’. I like the live racing, one shot deal type thing

But I’ve had it both ways. One example is last weekend. I couldn’t make stage 2 during the week so I organised a last minute meet up on the Saturday. Luckily for me Paul and lee both joined me or I wouldn’t of got the time I’d of got and I’d of been much further down the league table. If we bring in a penalty for re doing stages neither of them would of joined me. But as a consequence I profit at the expense of you, alongo, and anyone else who couldn’t join us and would fancy hanging in that group.

The flip side is when I’ve beaten people in races. But then they’ve re-done the courses having gained experience from the first run and beaten my time n a second attempt. For example when you and bridgy re did that course last month with the big climb in the middle.

It’s tough isn’t it? Because on the one hand we want to make the league as inclusive as possible by letting people do the races whenever they can. But on the other hand I think it dilutes the competition when people take multiple attempts until they get a time they’re happy with. But as a starting point I feel like we should do away with TT’s or change the rules around them.

I said to berty a few weeks back I’d only have one crack at each stage as I prefer it that way. But that’s up to everyone to decide for themselves.

I just think we should resist having too many "rules", as its hard enough to keep everyone aware of the few rules we do have now! And I don't want to be constantly enforcing rules - obviously we do need just some basic agreements of principle though or it doesn't work at all as a competition - even a friendly one. I personally don't have a problem with people having multiple attempts at a time on a stage - we're doing this to race each other and keep fit so if we're encouraged to do more, I think that's great. Obviously we were particularly lucky the other day on that stage you, me and Lee did together but that rarely happens - and it was fun!

What's the problem with TTs as you see it? I think they are actually the fairest of all the races we do becuse we're all on a level playing field re: drafting etc whether we can make the meetup or not. I also like the fact that it is a different effort to a race - the challenge to pace yourself over the course etc. without any other distraction. What TT rules do you think need to be changed though?

 

[bridgy]

You could change the distance so that we do 2 laps ..... it's a very up and down course, a leg sapper n its 2 lap form (having raced it previously).

As for when to ride, I'll always try to do at least one live race a week but can't guarantee that I can always do that due to the obvious, so I'm not in favour of not allowing solo rides to count.

That's a good suggestion - but it's tricky getting the distance right for two laps when you don't know what the lead-in will be. What I might do is definitley do a one lap version in the next league, and then we'll know what distance to set it up for a two lapper for a longer final stage type ride

 

[<Tommy>]

I just think we should resist having too many "rules", as its hard enough to keep everyone aware of the few rules we do have now! And I don't want to be constantly enforcing rules - obviously we do need just some basic agreements of principle though or it doesn't work at all as a competition - even a friendly one. I personally don't have a problem with people having multiple attempts at a time on a stage - we're doing this to race each other and keep fit so if we're encouraged to do more, I think that's great. Obviously we were particularly lucky the other day on that stage you, me and Lee did together but that rarely happens - and it was fun!

What's the problem with TTs as you see it? I think they are actually the fairest of all the races we do becuse we're all on a level playing field re: drafting etc whether we can make the meetup or not. I also like the fact that it is a different effort to a race - the challenge to pace yourself over the course etc. without any other distraction. What TT rules do you think need to be changed though?

I think you’re entirely right about avoiding rules wherever possible. It’s not why I come here!

That’s why I just made the personal choice to race every stage once. It’s up to others what they do is the way I see it. I kind of stopped paying much attention to the league table and just tried to beat people in the races I’m in. Because I’ve realised in these meet-ups they can change so much from one to the other. Who’s in the race, how much draft you get if random people etc. So yeah, I just try and beat whoever’s in front of me and try and avoid getting beat!

Regarding the TT. Well basically I’m going to do each race once. And if I beat someone’s time the first time around then that is what it is. If for example they take another 4 attempts but eventually beat my time. I’m going to see that as a pretty hollow victory. I think this is exaggerated in tt’s because it’s always a solo effort. At least if you ‘re do’ a normal race you’re less likely to get the draft advantage. In TT’s the more you do the same course the bigger your advantage.

Like I say in sport is about one off events. Spurs don’t get to re do the champions league final unfortunately either!

I agree I don’t want to have to write out a constitution of rules. It’s all just fun! But personally I think re doing the same course numerous times dilutes the league. Entirely up to others what they do is the way I see it.

 

[peterob]

My thoughts are that multiple attempts should be allowed. Anything that encourages us back on our bikes has to be a good thing

I've chosen to restrict myself to one attempt, but that's primarily because the races leave me ruined and I want to fit in some more structured training as I recover from injury. Personally I get more satisfaction from having a good performance in one of our meetup races than a strong overall league position, so only have kudos for those who have subsequent attempts and set better times.

Definitely keep the TTs though (not just because I tend to do better in them! ). They do allow everyone to race on a level playing field, no matter if they race solo or as part of a meetup.

 

[Whorty]

My thoughts are that multiple attempts should be allowed. Anything that encourages us back on our bikes has to be a good thing

I've chosen to restrict myself to one attempt, but that's primarily because the races leave me ruined and I want to fit in some more structured training as I recover from injury. Personally I get more satisfaction from having a good performance in one of our meetup races than a strong overall league position, so only have kudos for those who have subsequent attempts and set better times.

Definitely keep the TTs though (not just because I tend to do better in them! ). They do allow everyone to race on a level playing field, no matter if they race solo or as part of a meetup.

I'm a big fan of the TTs too as I do better comparatively .... so i am biased But the TT is a different kind of race and effort so it's good to mix it up. As someone who rarely gets to ride with others in a race, and get draft benefit, the TT levels the playing field slightly. For e.g. had the latest TT been a standard race, there is no way I would have been able to stay away from Brendan, Chris and Micheal who were chasing and only 4-5 seconds behind. Had they been drafting each other they would have reeled me in easily; as a consequence I would probably have just sat up, worked less hard, and waited for them so the TT style actually makes me work harder

I also love my (virtual) TT bike with fancy (virtual) disc wheels

 

[<Tommy>]

The tt’s are a double edged sword for me. Yes they’re good for people (like me) who struggle to make live events. But personally I just think doing the same event numerous times to get a better time... well each to their own I guess. But my vote would definitely be to only have one shot at a TT.

I think it was worse in bkool. Where you could beat someone, only for them to use your ghost to then draft their way to a better time than you in a re run.

Like I say. People are free to do what they want and I’m not trying to judge anyone here. But if you beat me in a race I’m always the first to congratulate and happy to do so. If you beat me or other people after multiple attempts to mine or others one attempt. I don’t really see what I’d be congratulating you for. For having more time on your hands perhaps?

 

[<Tommy>]

I'm a big fan of the TTs too as I do better comparatively .... so i am biased But the TT is a different kind of race and effort so it's good to mix it up. As someone who rarely gets to ride with others in a race, and get draft benefit, the TT levels the playing field slightly. For e.g. had the latest TT been a standard race, there is no way I would have been able to stay away from Brendan, Chris and Micheal who were chasing and only 4-5 seconds behind. Had they been drafting each other they would have reeled me in easily; as a consequence I would probably have just sat up, worked less hard, and waited for them so the TT style actually makes me work harder

I also love my (virtual) TT bike with fancy (virtual) disc wheels

I hate everyone who has the disc wheels. And it’s all pure jealousy on my part!

 

[Whorty]

I hate everyone who has the disc wheels. And it’s all pure jealousy on my part!

Pure luck ... when they opened the garage up on day one, they accidentally let people buy the wheels for a few hours. I didn't know that at the time, but when I saw them thought ,..... nice bling, I'll have some of them They're as heavy as bricks on inclines, but they do look swish

I think you can buy them once you get to some high level in Zwift

 

[<Tommy>]

Pure luck ... when they opened the garage up on day one, they accidentally let people buy the wheels for a few hours. I didn't know that at the time, but when I saw them thought ,..... nice bling, I'll have some of them They're as heavy as bricks on inclines, but they do look swish

I think you can buy them once you get to some high level in Zwift

Yeah I’ve never actually read up on which wheels are best to be honest. But whenever I see one of those disc wheels on the start line a get a bit of envy. I’m still level 20 I think so a while to go.

 

[berty bassett]

first things first @Whorty - sorry to hear about missus mate must be hard for both of you
personally i am anti rules and just trying to ride when i can , obviously the tt bikes for tts only is a good one , i re-do some courses mainly to see what i can do different to beat my time , not so much beat anyone elses time
think it would be a bit unfair if you turn up on the line and none of your competitors are there as they are doing it in a couple of days . i would still have a go as i was all set up but it would be like a solo effort what is a lot harder . makes a huge difference having someone you can either work with or hitch a ride on
as for tts i think i have a slight disadvantage and lose a bit of time due to all of you being too tall but its repaid in the mountains where all you lot are too tall - hah
would like to have a mountain top finish once in a while , no telling who will win nowadays but it would be exciting