Zwift Chat

[Milzy]

Funnily enough this is something I’ve thought about a little. It’s a weird one and to be honest I’m a little conflicted about it.

Basically I agree with you. Generally when you’re not happy with the outcome of a sporting event the participants don’t get a chance at a ‘do over’. I like the live racing, one shot deal type thing

But I’ve had it both ways. One example is last weekend. I couldn’t make stage 2 during the week so I organised a last minute meet up on the Saturday. Luckily for me Paul and lee both joined me or I wouldn’t of got the time I’d of got and I’d of been much further down the league table. If we bring in a penalty for re doing stages neither of them would of joined me. But as a consequence I profit at the expense of you, alongo, and anyone else who couldn’t join us and would fancy hanging in that group.

The flip side is when I’ve beaten people in races. But then they’ve re-done the courses having gained experience from the first run and beaten my time n a second attempt. For example when you and bridgy re did that course last month with the big climb in the middle.

It’s tough isn’t it? Because on the one hand we want to make the league as inclusive as possible by letting people do the races whenever they can. But on the other hand I think it dilutes the competition when people take multiple attempts until they get a time they’re happy with. But as a starting point I feel like we should do away with TT’s or change the rules around them.

I said to berty a few weeks back I’d only have one crack at each stage as I prefer it that way. But that’s up to everyone to decide for themselves.

It’s a good job it isn’t serious isn’t it. You could also do the segments under the radar in ERG mode. Set an effort on your full limit for the distance & hang on for dear life to avoid the spiral of death. Just don’t have a session picture attached to your workout.

 

[bridgy]

first things first @Whorty - sorry to hear about missus mate must be hard for both of you
personally i am anti rules and just trying to ride when i can , obviously the tt bikes for tts only is a good one , i re-do some courses mainly to see what i can do different to beat my time , not so much beat anyone elses time
think it would be a bit unfair if you turn up on the line and none of your competitors are there as they are doing it in a couple of days . i would still have a go as i was all set up but it would be like a solo effort what is a lot harder . makes a huge difference having someone you can either work with or hitch a ride on
as for tts i think i have a slight disadvantage and lose a bit of time due to all of you being too tall but its repaid in the mountains where all you lot are too tall - hah
would like to have a mountain top finish once in a while , no telling who will win nowadays but it would be exciting

A summit finish is a good point. I think the only official route with a summit finish is the Alpe, which I'm avoiding for meetups for the reason I said earlier. But i guess we could select a mountain route and make it clear the time for teh league will be taken for a segment that goes from the start but finishes at the summit. Another option is a TT up the Alpe - wouldn't then matter if it wasn't done as a meetup but we all just started at the same time.

I've sent out the invites for tomorrow and Thursday for the Muir & The Mountain route but the mountain top finish, the Alpe as a TT and the two-lap Sand & Sequoias ideas are banked for future leages

 

[Whorty]

It’s a good job it isn’t serious isn’t it. You could also do the segments under the radar in ERG mode. Set an effort on your full limit for the distance & hang on for dear life to avoid the spiral of death. Just don’t have a session picture attached to your workout.

Can you do this in Zwift?

Actually, thinking about it I suppose you could set up a workout, set the power at a steady (say) 250 watts for 60 mins (or however long you think the ride will take) and choose the race course for the workout. Certainly possible, but fairly easy to spot as the power line in Strava will be pretty steady I could see this working on the Alpe, but on a rolling course where you want to put more power on a climb, and less on the descent to rest (well, I do anyway!) I wonder whether you would actually get an advantage?

 

[bobinski]

Thanks both.

I do feel a tinge of guilt for setting my best times on stages 2 and 3 outside of the meet-up events. I’m tempted to suggest that a 2nd effort outside of the meet up shouldn’t be permitted or in some way should be given a time penalty? I feel it takes away a bit from the spirit of the meet up. It’s Fair enough if one does both meet ups, or if one cannot make either meet-up and does a solo effort - but having repeated repeat attempts - I’m not so sure. I know it was like this in the bkool winter league days when almost all times were set solo. Anyone else feel strongly about it?

Finally it would be great if we could all make Tuesday evening for a big showdown. Tactics will certainly come into play. Bridgy if you get a course selected today I will put together a short brief for everyone in advance so we all know the segment start and finish points and the parcours.

I don’t feel strongly about it. This is supposed to be about friendly competition and raising individual fitness. Fair play to anyone who can even physically manage repeat goes at some of the longer courses.
I love and hate the TT racing. It’s frigging hard but then it’s all about your own power and stamina. Bring it on!

 

[<Tommy>]

It’s a good job it isn’t serious isn’t it. You could also do the segments under the radar in ERG mode. Set an effort on your full limit for the distance & hang on for dear life to avoid the spiral of death. Just don’t have a session picture attached to your workout.

Have erg mode ever been discussed before? I’m not sure. Is it allowed? I don’t really have a view either way I don’t think.

Regarding people saying they do the course numerous times to try and improve their own time rather than effect the league. Then don’t include it in the league? People saying they race numerous times because it encourages them to race or get fit. Join one of the many other organised races on zwift maybe?

Again just to repeat my opinion... (I know I have many opinions...) *this is just my opnion! *.
It takes away from the league as a whole doing the same course multiple times. The same way it would of you ran any sporting event multiple until you got the result you wanted rather than the one you got. Just my two cents worth...

I won’t carry on banging the drum for the rest of the day I promise!...

 

[Whorty]

A summit finish is a good point. I think the only official route with a summit finish is the Alpe, which I'm avoiding for meetups for the reason I said earlier. But i guess we could select a mountain route and make it clear the time for teh league will be taken for a segment that goes from the start but finishes at the summit. Another option is a TT up the Alpe - wouldn't then matter if it wasn't done as a meetup but we all just started at the same time.

I've sent out the invites for tomorrow and Thursday for the Muir & The Mountain route but the mountain top finish, the Alpe as a TT and the two-lap Sand & Sequoias ideas are banked for future leages

I like the idea of a TT up the Alpe. Just needs one of us to log on at about 5:50, then roll to the base of the Alpe. Then, at 6 the rest of the group log on and 'join' the original rider. When everyone logged on, and at the base of the Alpe we race (at about 6 o'clock).

Fastest way to get to the Alpe is select the Jungle route, then roll down the hills until you get to turn right onto the Alpe.

Would mean you don't have a yellow beacon on your head, but could work?

 

[bridgy]

I like the idea of a TT up the Alpe. Just needs one of us to log on at about 5:50, then roll to the base of the Alpe. Then, at 7 the rest of the group log on and 'join' the original rider. When everyone logged on, and at the base of the Alpe we race (at about 6 o'clock).

Fastest way to get to the Alpe is select the Jungle route, then roll down the hills until you get to turn right onto the Alpe.

Would mean you don't have a yellow beacon on your head, but could work?

Yep, something like that would work

 

[bridgy]

It’s a good job it isn’t serious isn’t it. You could also do the segments under the radar in ERG mode. Set an effort on your full limit for the distance & hang on for dear life to avoid the spiral of death. Just don’t have a session picture attached to your workout.

I'm no expert on ERG mode because every time I've used it in workouts I hate it so avoid it if I can. But how would it necessarily make you faster? You still have to do the watts don't you - it just affects the way the resistance works doesn't it? You can also put the difficulty slider to zero and maintain pretty even resistance I guess? (Also not something I've done). I'd have thought having to maintain the watts in ERG mode could be a disadvantage to getting micro rests on descents and attacking the steepest sections, but I'd be interested to know if I'm missing something?

P.S.Whatever the answer I think using ERG mode in a race or TT would be against the spirit of the racing so shouldn't be allowed

 

[CXRAndy]

But how would it necessarily make you faster? You still have to do the watts don't you

If you can hold a steady power, so not fading or blowing by going >ftp for short periods. Its double edge though, because greater gains can be had by pushing harder on climbs than having high power on descents

 

[Whorty]

P.S.Whatever the answer I think using ERG mode in a race or TT would be against the spirit of the racing so shouldn't be allowed

I might have a try later at setting ERG in a workout and riding the Greater London flat on a TT bike (obviously the time won't count towards the league) to see the effect. i averaged 238 for the 17:53 course so I'll set the workout at this level too. Not 100% sure I could hold that power constantly for 18 mins so that will be an interesting little test in itself.

My guess is I will be slower but will be interesting to see.

 

[<Tommy>]

I might have a try later at setting ERG in a workout and riding the Greater London flat on a TT bike (obviously the time won't count towards the league) to see the effect. i averaged 238 for the 17:53 course so I'll set the workout at this level too. Not 100% sure I could hold that power constantly for 18 mins so that will be an interesting little test in itself.

My guess is I will be slower but will be interesting to see.

I think Andy’s right. It’ll be interesting to see how you get on though.

 

[Randyberlin]

2 laps of that!?

I don’t think that’s what Al is suggesting. I think it’s more about multiple attempts at the same course.

We just had the same discussion on the BKOOL side. It brought up the time when Bill and Add kept redoing one stage for a few seconds over and over. It sure was entertaining for the rest of us!

 

[mjd1988]

I think it was worse in bkool. Where you could beat someone, only for them to use your ghost to then draft their way to a better time than you in a re run.

I quite like the idea of ghosts for routes but being able to draft them is bizarre!

 

[Whorty]

I think Andy’s right. It’ll be interesting to see how you get on though.

Just going to warm up now for 10 mins, then starting the session in about 15 mins.

Any bets on higher or lower than 17:50?

I'm going for 18:15 .....

 

[<Tommy>]

This general discussion today has reminded me of the sub text I think we have sometimes. It’s like we’re trying to define the line of the acceptable level of caring. It’s ok to care, but how much is ‘caring too much’?! How seriously is too serious! I often see posts started with “l don’t really care, but...”. Or “It’s all just a bit of fun, but....” I’m sure I’m guilty of it myself at time’s. I wonder, are we having a separate competition to try and convince everyone else we care the least? Or perhaps that our level of caring is the correct one and everyone else should use that as their guide. All very British I’m sure !