Where have all the anti-vaxxers gone?

[Fat Lars]

Like ivermectin?

There's an interesting story from the US about Ivermectin. The Health insurance companies have sent communications to the doctors on their panels to cease from prescribing Ivermectin even off label, which means unathourised use but remains perfectly legal if safe to use. Now this breaches the terms and conditions that the Health Insurance have with the doctors. Their licence and agreement with the doctors states that they will not interfere with the doctor patient relationship including the prescribing of drugs. They have unilaterally altered the terms and condtions to say "except for the prescription of ivermectin". If they find out that the doctor has subsequently prescribed Ivermectin then they risk sanctions including exclusion.

Now the new kid on the block is Pfizer's Paxlovid, which is two drugs, nirmatrelvir and ritonavir, The dose is 3 pills for 5 days. The eye watering costs is 700 dollars a dose. Paxlovid is a protease inhibitor and is patented by Pfizer which will last 20 years. Its been rushed through approval by the FDA. Its use is for those suffering symptoms but before hospitilisation within 5 days.

Ivermectin is cheap. The patent from Pfizer has run out. There is so much misinformation about this drug. E.g. anti parasite for animals but it has been used millions of times in humans for treatment of scabies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/

Conclusion​

Developing an effective therapeutic against COVID-19 is currently the utmost interest to the scientific communities. The present study depicts comparative binding efficacy of a promising FDA-approved drug, ivermectin, against major pathogenic proteins of SARS-CoV-2 and their human counterparts involved in host–pathogen interaction. Herein, our in silico data have indicated that ivermectin efficiently utilizes viral spike protein, main protease, replicase and human TMPRSS2 receptors as the most possible targets for executing its antiviral efficiency. Therefore, ivermectin exploits protein targets from both virus and human, which could be the reason behind its excellent in vitro efficacy against SARS-CoV-2 as reported by Caly et al. [13]. Ivermectin B1b isomers have been found to be the more efficacious molecule out of the two homologs. Intriguingly, comparison of the in silico efficiency of ivermectin with currently used anticorona drugs, such as hydroxychloroquine and remdesivir, indicated toward the potential of ivermectin to target the major pathogenic proteins of SARS-CoV-2. Ivermectin is a popular antiparasitic drug and is also safe in children, younger adults, pregnant and lactating ladies. Development of pulmonary delivery of ivermectin through synthesis of better ivermectin formulation has been reported recently and this is expected to shorten the treatment duration and lead to better outcomes [33]. It is noteworthy to mention that many anti-SARS-CoV-2s are now being tested for their efficacy in shaping the immune response of humans, through targeting the cell surface as well as intracellular toll-like receptors [34,35]. In this context, ivermectin could be an effective option as well. Considering all these facts, the present study explores the therapeutic targets of ivermectin against SARS-CoV-2 and enlightens the possibility of using this drug in COVID-19 clinical trials shortly.

Now that is what I call a conspiracy.

 

[Milzy]

Please check this meme

 

[vickster]

Please check this meme

what about it to check...why don't you offer your opinion rather than just posting something?
Read da roolz about debate especially the bit about posting stuff
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/rules-for-appropriate-debate.213537/
Is it more cr@p off Twitter?

 

[Alex321]

Please check this meme

Check it for what?

Relevance?

OK, checked, it doesn't really have any

 

[Johnno260]

Please check this meme

It's rather stupid, as people change jobs and many stay within their area of knowledge or expertise.

For example we employed a former employee of an approval body to manage our certification and approval, reason being he knew what we needed to do, to pass audits the first time and with the correct processes, it was cheaper to employ an expert than to keep paying for re-audits which can cost 10's of thousands, and we have to have certification from 5-6 approval bodies to trade.

 

[DCBassman]

Please check this meme

And this comes from...?

 

[icowden]

Please check this meme

Will do.

So lets start with Scott Gottlieb. I presume the meme is trying to make out a conspiracy. Scott is an *independent* member of the Pfizer board. This means that

Independent outside directors are members of a firm's board of directors who are unaffiliated with the company itself. In contrast to insiders, outside directors are thought to be more objective and bring a different perspective to the management of a firm.

So although he can advise Pfizer he stands to gain no benefit and has no control over the firm. He has a good reputation for health initiatives and is someone who would be of interest to Pfizer due to his reputation.

Stephen Hahn is less transparent and a good example of how the revolving doors of politics and public life work. You work for the government, a company will employ you because they want that insight into Government. However as Moderna had been around for about 10 years before he joined them and specialised in vaccines it is hardly surprising that they created a vaccine. It's what they do. It is likely however that he was of help in trying to work with the US Government.

As for James C Smith, this is the exciting story "man leaves job to take another job". This happens regularly. People see a better job, or more interesting job, or better paid job, they take the job.

Re James Fauci, that one is *really grasping at straws. It hinges on the idea that as Fauci is a director of NIAID, he was somehow instrumental in agreeing funding to EcoHealth who funded a project in Wuhan to study newly discovered Coronaviruses in bats. Even if you accept that bit, the study significantly pre-dated the Covid19 pandemic and looked at strains unrelated to Covid19 precisely to gain more information about the risks of cros-species transmission. In particular the funding was conditional on no Change of Function research being carried out (i.e. no genetic manipulation).

The meme of course seeks to suggest that these men know each other and are working together in some sort of vast conspiracy.

It is, like most memes of this type, utter nonsense.

 

[icowden]

It's rather stupid, as people change jobs and many stay within their area of knowledge or expertise.

For example we employed a former employee of an approval body to manage our certification and approval, reason being he knew what we needed to do, to pass audits the first time and with the correct processes, it was cheaper to employ an expert than to keep paying for audits which can cost 10's of thousands, and we have to have certification from 5-6 approval bodies to trade.

Just wait until @Milzy discovers what happens to UK policiticans when they leave office (unless they are called Hancock)...

 

[markemark]

Relaxing to watch if nothing else


View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1481706063271505932

 

[mjr]

The Health insurance companies [...] have unilaterally altered the terms and condtions to say "except for the prescription of ivermectin". If they find out that the doctor has subsequently prescribed Ivermectin then they risk sanctions including exclusion.

There are no hits on Startpage, Duckduckgo, Bing or Google for this claim.

Edited to add: on one of the "News" tabs, this article published yesterday says that the latest data says US health insurers are still paying out for ivermectin and this is highly unusual because "Insurers usually don't cover ineffective treatments, or at least make patients pay for most of the cost," https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-01-ivermectin-prescriptions-covid-coverage-doesnt.html

Also, even the makers of branded ivermectin, Merck, say there's "No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19". https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/

Conclusion​

[...] Herein, our in silico data have indicated that ivermectin efficiently utilizes viral spike protein, main protease, replicase and human TMPRSS2 receptors as the most possible targets for executing its antiviral efficiency. [...]

Just in case anyone else's pseudo-latin isn't up to speed, "in silico" means these are computer simulation results, not petri-dish stuff and not real patients.

Now that is what I call a conspiracy.

What, making shoot up about health insurance, or extrapolating computer simulations to humans?

 

[Fat Lars]

There are no hits on Startpage, Duckduckgo, Bing or Google for this claim.

Also, even the makers of branded ivermectin, Merck, say there's "No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19". https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/


Just in case anyone else's pseudo-latin isn't up to speed, "in silico" means these are computer simulation results, not petri-dish stuff and not real patients.


What, making shoot up about health insurance, or extrapolating computer simulations to humans?

1) This video of a doctor shows an actual letter on the screen. To save you some time the relevant bit starts after 1 minute

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75VN1aFXwZw&t=958s

Reading the comments below the video of those people who have used Ivermectin might be worth a look. Or are they not real patients?


2) Actually the point that I was making is that it is safe to prescribe and in theory beneficial to use as a treatment. The conclusion certainly confirms this and recommends a randomised controlled clinical trial.
One clinical trial I've found is this one. The efficacy of the drug towards Covid 19 has been completed and the results are pending publication

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05076253

3) Isn't Life Great?

 

[mjr]

1) This video of a doctor shows an actual letter on the screen.

Well, that's me convinced: there's no way that anyone could fake "an actual letter" well enough to withstand being held up to a camera(!)

Reading the comments below the video of those people who have used Ivermectin might be worth a look. Or are they not real patients?

Well, that's me convinced: every commenter on youtube is a completely trustworthy medical expert and there are no bots on there(!)

2) Actually the point that I was making is that it is safe to prescribe and in theory beneficial to use as a treatment.

Long way from theory to practice and it's strange that despite all the people taking it, including those youtube commenters, that we're still waiting for any solid evidence for it after almost two years.

One clinical trial I've found is this one. The efficacy of the drug towards Covid 19 has been completed and the results are pending publication

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05076253

I look forward to its publication, although I am slightly concerned by its reference to "November 20211" which makes me wonder about the care and attention to detail.

 

[vickster]

2) Actually the point that I was making is that it is safe to prescribe and in theory beneficial to use as a treatment. The conclusion certainly confirms this and recommends a randomised controlled clinical trial.
One clinical trial I've found is this one. The efficacy of the drug towards Covid 19 has been completed and the results are pending publication

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05076253

Wow a whole 72 participants in the trial in one whole hospital

 

[Fat Lars]

Well, that's me convinced: there's no way that anyone could fake "an actual letter" well enough to withstand being held up to a camera(!)


Well, that's me convinced: every commenter on youtube is a completely trustworthy medical expert and there are no bots on there(!)


Long way from theory to practice and it's strange that despite all the people taking it, including those youtube commenters, that we're still waiting for any solid evidence for it after almost two years.


I look forward to its publication, although I am slightly concerned by its reference to "November 20211" which makes me wonder about the care and attention to detail.

Well that shows that any serious debate here is a waste of time. Bye

 

[Arrowfoot]

Please check this meme

These memes are click baits and wet dreams to conspiracy theorist. Its done very well as they want the gullible to think they worked the connections by themselves. And therefore it has to be true.

That meme is exactly how the economy of the World and big corporations run. They look for people who have proven track record in a related field, proven leadership or expertise or have great influence in the market place or in Government or in Parliament. You do not want a retired star performer from Cirque du Soleil, a pastor or a retired Policeman on the Board. By the way for listed companies the regulators can reject the appointment.