Where have all the anti-vaxxers gone?

[Milzy]

I posted a link to the New England Journal of Medicine. It’s one of the most reputable medical journals. I’ll believe that (as will others who have a scientific training).

Don’t try and put words in my mouth about your manager. If you want to know what I think, why not read what I posted

It’s a great journal. I believe the vaccines are going to be tweaked for the better in time.

 

[classic33]

Is the world really so black & white? I wish it was. Keep believing the tripe on google & Twitter where censorship constantly takes place. My work friend can’t breathe because the 3 jabs haven’t worked. Next you’ll tell me if it wasn’t for the 3 jabs he’d be dead now. Maybe he needed a 4th?

Lidocaine/Lignocaine* caused my heart to stop, within seconds of it being given, on more than one occasion. Ten years ago, the end of this month, it nearly cost two people their jobs. The A&E consultant and the nurse who used it. It was on the full records not to be used, but the A&E records were on a seperate system.

Should we now stop the use of this medication based on the reactions of one person.

*Used daily as a local, by dentists and A&E departments throughout the country. Pull teeth with no local?

 

[Profpointy]

Is the world really so black & white? I wish it was. Keep believing the tripe on google & Twitter where censorship constantly takes place. My work friend can’t breathe because the 3 jabs haven’t worked. Next you’ll tell me if it wasn’t for the 3 jabs he’d be dead now. Maybe he needed a 4th?

So we're to understand the jabs, sadly, didn't work for him, rather than the jabs made him seriously ill. I'd previously thought you were saying toe jabs had caused the illness, but I evidently misunderstood. Whilst it's really bad luck, and hope he gets away with it that's not a reason not to take the jabs

Washing your hands before preparing food / eating or after having a crap doesn't guarantee you won't get a stomach upset - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it surely?

 

[Johnno260]

Is the world really so black & white? I wish it was. Keep believing the tripe on google & Twitter where censorship constantly takes place. My work friend can’t breathe because the 3 jabs haven’t worked. Next you’ll tell me if it wasn’t for the 3 jabs he’d be dead now. Maybe he needed a 4th?

You can use google scholar for proper peer reviewed documents, that way you avoid random people with an opinion.

Or you can use decent sources.

Vaccines aren’t 100% effective they never will be for any vaccine ever, but did your co-worker have underlying issues or were they in a at risk category? There are many factors in play.

 

[farfromtheland]

Loads of people?? Even if that’s true, it’s as if they don’t know the current evidence. I and others have provided you with it. Your response is to come back with a list of cranks and nut cases. I think we can draw our conclusions

I have twice linked to the evidence the government rely on for recommending covid boosters for Omicron. The research they cite was published in September - before Omicron - yet their advice is that boosters are effective for Omicron.

There is no current evidence. It takes at least three months to analyse effectiveness.

 

[Ajax Bay]

"The MHRA and JCVI do have access to data, and they have determined age groups where the benefits of vaccination outweigh risks."
Note that this is true (thobut for under 16s) these two bodies fulfill different functions. JCVI said the benefits of vaccination did not outweigh the risks. Their current statement is here. Back in the autumn they recognised there were other benefits which might tip the balance against the (minimal) medical risks and it was passed to the 4 home nations CMOs to decide. Continuity of already adversely affected education was one key benefit, and the decision was taken to extend vaccination to that cohort. I guess the same argument can be mobilised for the under 12s.
"My work friend can’t breathe because the 3 jabs haven’t worked. Next you’ll tell me if it wasn’t for the 3 jabs he’d be dead now."
Your QC work friend is unhappily suffering because they caught COVID-19; not "because the 3 jabs haven't worked".
Noone is saying "he'd be dead now if it wasn't for the 3 jabs." This is your strawman, well stuffed.
Vaccination in its various make, dose number, combination and variant encountered offers protection against infection to a percentage: say 70% (with a CI of +- 10%). It has protected twice as many as it has not. The Omicron variant is able to infect a higher percentage of vaccinated/boosted than Delta could ceteris paribus. Against serious illness the protection offered by 3 jabs is way higher (say 90+%). How about these for some simple real world figures:
Case peaked at 192k per day. From ONS data the number of infections is reasonably estimated at twice the cases reported - so say 400k (keeping figures simple). 80% are at least doubly vaccinated.
Admissions peaked at 2277 per day on 1 Jan. I'd use that as a proxy for serious illness (and ignore the with/for argument).
[All figures from Coronavirus.data.gov.uk and 7 day averages, case by specimen date.]
You do the maths.
Hope your co-worker makes it through.

 

[Alex321]

Don’t agree with jabbing young children.

Doing so has saved many millions of lives over the last few decades, and saved many more from being crippled.

By the time they reach the age of 4, most children in the UK will have had 16 vaccinations.

Yet you "don't agree with it". Presumably you would rather those millions had died?

My QC manager triple jabbed and in hospital, he can’t breathe. We need a new vax.

Nobody has ever said the COVID vaccines are 100% effective. But there is absolutely no doubtr whatsoever that they have very significantly reduced the numbers of people with severe COVID.

 

[Alex321]

I’m not having a 6 year old been jabbed. My wife is a paediatric community nurse & won’t have her jabbed either.

If your child has reached the age of 6 without any vaccinations, and there is no underlying medical reason for that, then you are not fit to be a parent. And your wife should not be in that job if that is her attitude.

 

[vickster]

If your child has reached the age of 6 without any vaccinations, and there is no underlying medical reason for that, then you are not fit to be a parent. And your wife should not be in that job if that is her attitude.

see his subsequent posts, only opposed to Covid (but hasn’t provided reasoning)

 

[Alex321]

Loads of people in the NHS don’t recommend it. It’s as if they know something.

I know of nobody in the NHS who actually knows anything about it who recommends against it.

And given your record to date, don't bother trying to find samples, they aren't likely to be any more valid than the previous lists you have unquestioningly posted up.

 

[Alex321]

see his subsequent posts, only opposed to Covid (but hasn’t provided reasoning)

Not surprising, since there isn't actually any valid reasoning.

But while I've seen his subsequent posts since, that wasn't what he was actually saying.

If he thinks the COVID vaccine is for some reason less safe than the other 16 his hid will have had, then perhaps he needs to find out rather more about the subject than he seems to know.

 

[Ajax Bay]

we are not antivaxers. Of course they have vaccines. Just not for Covid.

If your child has reached the age of 6 without any vaccinations, and there is no underlying medical reason for that, then you are not fit to be a parent. And your wife should not be in that job if that is her attitude.

Alex - please read the thread and avoid attacking people (parental fitness, disqualification from job). Everyone's entitled to their choice, particularly regarding marginal (according to JCVI negligible) benefit vaccines for healthy juniors. Or do you think all vaccines should be mandatory by law? In which case, emigrate to live in a society than follows that approach.

 

[lazybloke]

So we're to understand the jabs, sadly, didn't work for him, rather than the jabs made him seriously ill. I'd previously thought you were saying toe jabs had caused the illness, but I evidently misunderstood. Whilst it's really bad luck, and hope he gets away with it that's not a reason not to take the jabs

Washing your hands before preparing food / eating or after having a crap doesn't guarantee you won't get a stomach upset - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it surely?

Toe jabs!!!!!

sorry...

 

[Milzy]

You can use google scholar for proper peer reviewed documents, that way you avoid random people with an opinion.

Or you can use decent sources.

Vaccines aren’t 100% effective they never will be for any vaccine ever, but did your co-worker have underlying issues or were they in a at risk category? There are many factors in play.

He seemed slim & healthy but a 50 year old smoker.

 

[Milzy]

Alex - please read the thread and avoid attacking people (parental fitness, disqualification from job). Everyone's entitled to their choice, particularly regarding marginal (according to JCVI negligible) benefit vaccines for healthy juniors. Or do you think all vaccines should be mandatory by law? In which case, emigrate to live in a society than follows that approach.

Who is that nut job? Alex read properly, the child has had every vaccine going apart from Covid. A child who eats a lot of fruit & veg. Has her own swimming coach. Cycles, goes to park run. I’d say is more privileged than millions of other children in this country. Also millions don’t take vaccines for religious reasons. So you can rant about how bad religion is if it makes one feel better.