Where have all the anti-vaxxers gone?

[lazybloke]

It seems by definition there are no trials what so ever on children so young. They do not need it, they have good enough immune systems. The vaccines are just not safe enough.

Without context, your statement looks alarmist.

You could add stats to reinforce your point.
Similarly, I might use stats to argue a different point of view.

I don't have those stats, but the MHRA and JCVI do have access to data, and they have determined age groups where the benefits of vaccination outweigh risks. They may use additional information from rollouts to younger children in other countries, and follow suit.. Edit: in other words, they disagree with you.

I vaccinated my children because I hoped it would protect my oldies. My oldies have escaped Covid so far; touch wood.
I also vaccinated my children so they might have some immunity/resistance if a nastier variant pops up in the near future.

 

[Johnno260]

We don’t have enough studies in children.

We don’t have enough studies in children.
What about this?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ew-scientist-helped-invent-MRNA-vaccines.html
Do you realise the brains that man has? Why are they going after him? Because you’ve got to follow the money trail.

Ah Robert Malone, he was on that list and I replied regarding him, he didn't invent the MRNA technology he did some work on lipids, this same guy spent the last few months saying about the dangers of the Covid vaccines and we should stop taking them, now here is where he went full Wakefield 1) He totally lied about his work. 2) after slamming the vaccines it comes out he is working with Indian pharma companies to manufacture a competitor.

It's all in my reply to the "list" so as they say follow the money..

Please actually do some back ground research as that list has proven you wrong a few times now.

Edit: Also in that interview and others he throws out the Nazi word left right and center, it's a pathetic attempt at discrediting anyone you see counter to you position, there is a thing called Godwins law or Reductio ad hitlerum it's basically a sad attempt to throw shade on people when you have no coherent argument against their position

 

[MontyVeda]

We don’t have enough studies in children.

We don’t have enough studies in children.
What about this?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ew-scientist-helped-invent-MRNA-vaccines.html
Do you realise the brains that man has? Why are they going after him? Because you’ve got to follow the money trail.

4.8 million not enough?

as for your DM link...

 

[Milzy]

Ah Robert Malone, he was on that list and I replied regarding him, he didn't invent the MRNA technology he did some work on lipids, this same guy spent the last few months saying about the dangers of the Covid vaccines and we should stop taking them, now here is where he went full Wakefield 1) He totally lied about his work. 2) after slamming the vaccines it comes out he is working with Indian pharma companies to manufacture a competitor.

It's all in my reply to the "list" so as they say follow the money..

Please actually do some back ground research as that list has proven you wrong a few times now.

Edit: Also in that interview and others he throws out the Nazi word left right and center, it's a pathetic attempt at discrediting anyone you see counter to you position, there is a thing called Godwins law or Reductio ad hitlerum it's basically a sad attempt to throw shade on people when you have no coherent argument against their position

This doesn’t look good on Joe Rogan either.

 

[farfromtheland]

It's not a terribly good use of resources to have staff performing tasks that could be better undertaken by experienced staff on a lower pay grade.

What I'd like is to have more voice for clinical staff in the running of health care.

[re. research on first vaccines being rushes but thorough enough]
Really? Because I'm about to attend my final clinic appointment in an immunogenicity trial for a booster against the beta variant, which is what was concerning scientists back in the summer.

Well they were evaluated and reported in medical journals with fair effectiveness rates. Side effects emerged later, admittedly. Astra-Zeneca at least then picked up on these. Alpha beta and delta variants were examined and found similar in the spike proteins. Omicron is significantly different.

Who "sat back and assumed it was done and dusted"?

I'm not aware of anybody who thought that.

Youtube, for one. My observation is that boosters are being promoted as effective against Omicron. This is not proven.

It doesn't completely prevent transmission, any more than it completely prevents infection, but it most certainly very significantly reduces both.

It significantly reduces the symptoms of infection. I think your claims on the other counts are unproven, based on source research.

And it appears to be still significantly reducing symptoms with Omicron, although it may not be having as much effect on transmission. Almost everybody needing intensive care with Omicron is not fully vaccinated.

The mechanisms for this reduction in severity are not known. T cells are thought more significant than antibodies that are specific to earlier variants -
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/what-...n-why-immunity-is-about-more-than-antibodies/

It isn't that simlpe, but you appear to be bending the facts slightly above.

Everything I have said is either my opinion, in which case i have said so, or else from medical and research papers which I have referenced. The particular one I referenced re Omicron and boosters is this one from September that the government references as of 7th January.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.15.21266341v1

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...les/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/vaccines

 

[Johnno260]

This doesn’t look good on Joe Rogan either.

Joe Rogan show does nothing but push anti vax agenda items, if you look why it was removed it was due to the guy comparing everything he didn’t agree with to the Nazi.

Also as a side before going into that interview it broke he was working to develop a competitor vaccine, and he had spent months slamming them.

 

[Rocky]

@Milzy ….. there are plenty of good studies on children (and I linked you to one in the New England Journal of Medicine) and covid vaccines.

Just for information, I sit on a Research Ethics Committee and we routinely get asked to review studies which involve young children. There’s a whole process of assent and consent that ensures children are not enrolled in research which is against their interests and/or they don’t want to participate in.

 

[Johnno260]

@Milzy Also as a side note, instead of taking something like what Malone said at face value, ask an opinion, I'm sure people here are glad to help.

like I said if you look at many posts in the other Covid posts people have done great work at putting some really good information out there, people would rather equip you with good information to base things off of then you take something from a dubious source.

I can come across as a little short as to be honest I'm tired of friends and family taking the anti vaccine route or believing in something a con man said, I can spot the dishonest douche bags as I have been forced to with stuff that's been thrown around friend and family groups, like the "list" I saw so many red flag names on that straight away.

Just ask if you aren't sure.

Edit: or do a simple search, I listened to some of that podcast and it should’ve been taken down it wasn’t pleasant listening, even the Mail article says it’s was his ranting about everything being Nazi that got it taken down.

 

[Arrowfoot]

What I'd like is to have more voice for clinical staff in the running of health care.

Steve James, the consultant anaesthetist at Kings College Hospital who approached Javid could make his points to a layperson such as Javid but could not do so in front of his medical colleagues. He also can’t front the Medical ruling body as it is not his area of expertise or qualification. He also could not publish a scientific papers in peer review journal on the subject for the same reason. Hence the approach to Javid.

The naive naturally assume that he is qualified to speak on the subJect as he is medical doctor.

The Govt acts on the advice of medically qualified panel of experts hence Javid‘s retort to him which was spot on. So its clinical staff that have voice on health care. Not my mechanic or my golf coach or some politician. Politicians allocate resources and they are particularly bad at it. Why would we allow politicians to make decision on a medical course of action.

I have seen soccer mums in the US, religious zealots, alternative and pseudo science and medical individuals constantly cherry picking research to convince themselves. So what you are doing is not a surprise. So why not take your own advice and let the voice of clinical staff make the important decisions for us and society

 

[KnittyNorah]

What about this?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ew-scientist-helped-invent-MRNA-vaccines.html
Do you realise the brains that man has? Why are they going after him? Because you’ve got to follow the money trail.

Oh dear oh dear. I wonder what you find to admire in the brain of someone who many might describe as a conman....

 

[MontyVeda]

Oh dear oh dear. I wonder what you find to admire in the brain of someone who many might describe as a conman....

I'm still wondering how that link answers my question regarding whether or not Milzy's stance has changed

 

[Milzy]

Don’t agree with jabbing young children.
My QC manager triple jabbed and in hospital, he can’t breathe. We need a new vax.

 

[Rocky]

Don’t agree with jabbing young children.
My QC manager triple jabbed and in hospital, he can’t breathe. We need a new vax.

Luckily you aren't in charge of the health of our children. I've provided you with evidence of the efficacy and safety of Covid vaccination for 5-11 year olds. You've ignored that evidence, preferring to base your opinions on conspiracy theories and theorists (just look at that long list of individuals you provided us with).

I'm sorry about your QC manager and I hope he/she gets better. Two questions - are we to base all our international vaccination programmes (which have been shown to be safe and effective in the vast vast majority of cases) on what allegedly has happened to one person? What would have happened to the manager, had he/she not been vaxed?

By spreading your anti-vax views on social media and amongst your friends, you are part of the problem and certainly not a solution. Sorry to be blunt, but you are ignoring the strong evidence I have provided you with.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Don’t agree with jabbing young children.
My QC manager triple jabbed and in hospital, he can’t breathe. We need a new vax.

So would you be willing and able to go head to head in a discussion with Prof Russell Viner? And if so, what would your main premise be against the vaccination?
Remember he believes that it is a very fine balance in favour of vaccinations for children, and I have no doubt that the 'right evidence' would tip him the other way.

I hope your QC manager recovers both soon and completely. Of course neither you nor we can have any idea whatsoever of any underlying co-morbidities he may have, nor if there is some previously-unknown problem with his immune response which means that he has not had any response to the vaccinations. Neither do we know whether he may have already died if he had had no vaccination.
I never had any response to the rubella vaccination, despite having 4 (or perhaps 5) almost 40 years ago, in order to follow a certain career path. I am sure I am not unique in the world wrt lack of response to a vaccination, despite being otherwise totally healthy.

 

[MontyVeda]

Don’t agree with jabbing young children.
My QC manager triple jabbed and in hospital, he can’t breathe. We need a new vax.

I don't know if they still routinely jab young children for things like polio, measles, etc... but i certainly was and it didn't do me any harm*

How many people do you know that have had the three jabs and aren't in hospital and can breathe quite normally?? Is it more than one?

*unless of course it made me gullible to certain 'facts' regarding vaccines.