Where have all the anti-vaxxers gone?

[vickster]

I originally misunderstood this post
I thought it was saying only the unvaccinated would get sick pay
It actually says they vaccinated get the normal sick pay of £400-450 (depending on location) and the UNvaccinated get the minimum - which is SSP at £96.35

just to be clear in case someone else does what I did!
My wife says several other firms have announced this

I presume people with genuine medical reasons to be unvaccinated get a pass out for this!

It says unvaccinated without a medical reason for being unvaccinated

 

[winjim]

I used the phrase, to mean all NHS workers in direct contact with patients needing urgent treatment, especially in Accident and Emergency departments of hospitals.

There is also an implication of being more vulnerable in that work to the risks of infection (not the spread because of PPE) and of being those we need most when we as patients are most in need and also of being likely to have access to in depth information about covid, whether from experience or research.

What is meant by 'direct contact' and what is the purpose of vaccination?

Also 'urgent care' if you want to go there...

 

[Landsurfer]

Over 50% of NHS paid staff have no clinical contact ...... why exactly are they “front Line” or “NHS Hero's” ....
My experiences with the local hospital in Rotherham over the last 10 months have shown 2 groups .... Clinicians ... who have saved my life .. .
And Administrators and Managers that left me with out food and toilets for over 24 hours while supposedly in A&E ...
In March 2020 there was a surge of administrators waving their NHS cards to get to the front of the queue in Aldi .... not clinicians .....

 

[farfromtheland]

What is meant by 'direct contact' and what is the purpose of vaccination?

Also 'urgent care' if you want to go there...

Direct contact is being close enough to touch or communicate face to face.

The purpose of vaccination is to reduce the likelihood of a person or animal suffering symptoms of an infectious disease.

 

[winjim]

Direct contact is being close enough to touch or communicate face to face.

The purpose of vaccination is to reduce the likelihood of a person or animal suffering symptoms of an infectious disease.

OK I can only really discuss acute trusts since that's where my experience is, but we've widened our definition of front line from doctors and nurses to literally every member of staff. That's fine by me but it's a massive leap.

My question about vaccination was not meaning to ask what a vaccine does, but rather what is the purpose, the goal, the reason for vaccinating specifically front line members of staff? The strategic aim if you like. I can think of several possibilities but I don't want to put words in your mouth. Although the points may be kind of moot now that we're using a definition of 'front line' that includes everybody.

 

[MontyVeda]

Over 50% of NHS paid staff have no clinical contact ...... why exactly are they “front Line” or “NHS Hero's” ....
...

what has that statement got to do with anything stated in this thread?

 

[lazybloke]

Over 50% of NHS paid staff have no clinical contact ...... why exactly are they “front Line” or “NHS Hero's” ....
My experiences with the local hospital in Rotherham over the last 10 months have shown 2 groups .... Clinicians ... who have saved my life .. .
And Administrators and Managers that left me with out food and toilets for over 24 hours while supposedly in A&E ...
In March 2020 there was a surge of administrators waving their NHS cards to get to the front of the queue in Aldi .... not clinicians .....

Some would argue there are too many administrators and managers, but every organisation needs support staff; they play a vital role and many of them are well respected.
They may have faced similar pressures during the pandemic as the front-line staff, they may even have worked temporarily on the front line, worked extra shifts, pitched-in, and for a short few weeks were thanked by an occasional one-minute round applause.

How quickly the public have forgotten to be grateful.


I've done plenty of public service work but have never held a blue light card. If I qualified for one, why would i not use it?

 

[farfromtheland]

OK I can only really discuss acute trusts since that's where my experience is, but we've widened our definition of front line from doctors and nurses to literally every member of staff. That's fine by me but it's a massive leap.

My question about vaccination was not meaning to ask what a vaccine does, but rather what is the purpose, the goal, the reason for vaccinating specifically front line members of staff? The strategic aim if you like. I can think of several possibilities but I don't want to put words in your mouth. Although the points may be kind of moot now that we're using a definition of 'front line' that includes everybody.

I think vaccination provides a measure of individual protection, or at least did pre-Omicron, but the purpose of vaccination on a workplace basis beyond that could only practically be for there to be less time taken off sick, since vaccinated people can still spread infection, without excellent PPE anyway.

Having said that there should be no punitive IKEA-style consequences in terms of sick pay. Self isolation is needed to prevent spreading covid. To make isolation more expensive is downright counterproductive, apart from the ethical issues.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Why would you end a vaccination programme that’s been shown to reduce deaths? There is clear evidence showing deaths tailing off when the vaccination programme kicked in, that’s the last thing that should be halted.

Covid is also more deadly than the flu, if anything it will hopefully just become an annual vaccination like the Flu.

The poster is anti vax if I recall ? So if it’s stopped , there is no pressure to have it . Apologies if I got that wrong

 

[Alex321]

Over 50% of NHS paid staff have no clinical contact ...... why exactly are they “front Line” or “NHS Hero's” ....

Straw man, since nobody has suggested they are.

 

[mjr]

To make isolation more expensive is downright counterproductive, apart from the ethical issues.

How about making people pay for all tests, then? Is that counterproductive? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-as-country-told-to-live-with-covid-3bpz8lnqf

 

[Alex321]

How about making people pay for all tests, then? Is that counterproductive? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-as-country-told-to-live-with-covid-3bpz8lnqf

In the short term, yes.

In the longer term, both mass free tests and self-isolation will have to go. We can't live with either of those forever.

 

[mjr]

In the longer term, both mass free tests and self-isolation will have to go. We can't live with either of those forever.

Why the heck not? It is only free at the point of use and paid for by our health taxes in the interest of public health. The NHS provides loads of free screening tests. Will they also be charged for? It's basically a financial penalty for taking care of your health and benefitting the nation, isn't it?

 

[winjim]

I think vaccination provides a measure of individual protection, or at least did pre-Omicron, but the purpose of vaccination on a workplace basis beyond that could only practically be for there to be less time taken off sick, since vaccinated people can still spread infection, without excellent PPE anyway.

So the aim of vaccinating front line NHS staff is to reduce sickness absence and maintain service continuity. In our example of an acute trust that kind of works since we've established that every single member of staff is front line but that's not by design, it's by default since they all work in the same building in which it is possible they will come into contact with patients. I don't think that staff falling into the front line category by default is really acceptable though when you're planning a strategic vaccination program.

What we haven't done is define as front line the staff who, regardless of patient contact, are essential to the running of the service. If the aim of vaccination is service continuity then these people also need to be defined as front line since without them the entire service grinds to a halt. And that's a lot of people in a lot of professions. We are way, way past just doctors and nurses as suggested upthread.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

So - Prime Minister's Question tomorrow and last week Starmer had to back out due to a positive Covid test

So whether or not he has to miss tomorrow as well depends on the results of tests today and tomorrow

Or can he just turn up anyway as long as he brings a bottle???

(personally I would anyway and just put the bottle by the side of teh dispatch bottle with no comment - let someone ask about it)