matticus
Guru
incidentally, this does already happen regularly in the UK, but I agree it can be a bad idea! https://road.cc/content/news/council-escalates-war-cycling-menaces-ban-305667
UK SUV Petition
- Thread starter sheddy
- Start date
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incidentally, this does already happen regularly in the UK, but I agree it can be a bad idea! https://road.cc/content/news/council-escalates-war-cycling-menaces-ban-305667
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
You have just made blanket statements, all of which need a lot of further refinement to be reasonably accurate.
And you need to start by defining what you actually mean by an "SUV". The letters stand for "Sports Utility Vehicle", which is almost meaningless, but everybody has their own idea what it means.
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Well, sure, you can argue there's a point at which an SUV is merely a marketing badge for a normal car. And I agree it's not black and white; clearly a Hummer is much worse than that Hyundai.
But the prevalence of huge and intimidating vehicles is a big problem, for the reasons I outlined. Merely saying "all SUVs are not the same" doesn't address that. And of course any action would have to meet some kind of technical definitons (weight, wheel size, bonnet height, whatever) not the marketing badge.
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Refine away. Remember the demand was for "simple". See if you can do better.
matticus
Guru
Why don't we all agree that "Sports Utility Vehicle" was ALWAYS an utterly daft marketing term? BUT
we all know that some vehicles cause more damage/injury/congestion/death/pollution than others - there are real problems here worth addressing - and:
we all know that some vehicles cause more damage/injury/congestion/death/pollution than others - there are real problems here worth addressing - and:
The issue with if it looks like a duck is that you end up with "well an Ostrich does look a bit like a duck". I did find an article which suggests that the whole "SUV" thing is a US invention. Essentially if you can class a car as an SUV (i.e. it has offroad capability) then it is subject to much less stringent testing in terms of emissions. Thus US manufacturers started making everything an SUV.
https://jalopnik.com/every-car-looks-like-this-thanks-to-a-gigantic-regulato-1849837803
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
I have no interest in "doing better". And why you demanded "simple", I don't know - nobody else did.
matticus
Guru
Hopefully we can agree that is a ludicrous mess! It's reminiscent of the UK loophole for double-cab pickups (which I don't pretend to have precise knowledge of ... )
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
I was responding to a post demanding simple!
Jameshow
Veteran
We already have a 3.5t limit where would you put it? 2t limit or 1.5t or 1t???
Such a law would be Draconian and very unlikely tbh.
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
No you weren't.
You were responding to a post saying "OK let me try to put this in simple terms that may make more sense".
No "demand" there from anybody.
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Ah, apologies, you're right, I was responding to a poster putting forward the virtues of simple arguments, which isn't the same thing.
I absolutely stand by the points though.
matticus
Guru
"We could start with any car wider than 2m (including mirrors) or heavier than 2 tonnes be classed as a HGV. You then need to pass your hgv test to drive one, and all such vehicles are fitted with a tachograph and limited to 56 mph."
I don't understand - surely there are EVs under 2000kg, and under 2m in width? IAMFI!
I don't understand - surely there are EVs under 2000kg, and under 2m in width? IAMFI!
Most of them are under 2m in width. The average weight of an EV is 1940kg with only 7 models below 1500kg. Part of the reason for that is that batteries are between 500kg and 1200kg (depending on battery size). The arbitrary 2000kg limit for EVs thus cuts out about a third of all EVs. Whereas if you apply that to ICE cars you are only cutting out a tiny amount of the market (usually the top end luxury cars).
A lot of those "cars" would then just be reclassified as vans. Are you going to apply your HGV rule to every plumber and builder in the land?
Also - how are people going to pass those tests? They have to be done in large HGVs - that's the point of the test - to be able to control and drive a very large, very long vehicle. Not to mention the backlog in testing.
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roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Whilst there are technical reasons for EVs to be heavier, there are also perverse incentives; many (most?) new EVs will be company cars, and AIUI the BIK system effectively gives no ceiling to a very big tax break for expensive EVs.
So many EVs are luxury heavy models because you get nearly 40% off them through the tax system. Remove that, and I'd wager that EV sizes and weights would come down significantly.
[caveat: it's entirely possible I've misunderstood the tax system]
