UK SUV Petition

[Alex321]

The concern is the size, weight, bonnet height and acceleration of these things, which are the causes of the problems, not what they're called.

There's good data to show the trends in vehicle sizes.

Size and bonnet height yes - though many cars now sold as SUV's (particularly EVs ) have normal bonnet heights.

Weight is less of an issue, provided the brakes are good enough. As a pedestrian, it makes no difference whether the vehicle hitting you weighs 1000Kg or 3000Kg. Either will do you a power of no good at 30mph.

And acceleration seems almost completely irrelevant to me.

 

[Gillstay]

But by changing from an estate to a SUV I have done better, and fashion was extremely far done the list of requirements. I’m sure I’m not alone here.

Yes but it is a fashion, just think back to when the roads were full of people carriers or before that estate cars like Audi A8 and Peugeot 405.

Now when we need people to be frugal we have moved away from that, which feels rather stupid as a species.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Size and bonnet height yes - though many cars now sold as SUV's (particularly EVs ) have normal bonnet heights.

Weight is less of an issue, provided the brakes are good enough. As a pedestrian, it makes no difference whether the vehicle hitting you weighs 1000Kg or 3000Kg. Either will do you a power of no good at 30mph.

And acceleration seems almost completely irrelevant to me.

The laws of physics and in particular conservation of momentum would disagree with you.

 

[Gillstay]

You have just made blanket statements, all of which need a lot of further refinement to be reasonably accurate.

And you need to start by defining what you actually mean by an "SUV". The letters stand for "Sports Utility Vehicle", which is almost meaningless, but everybody has their own idea what it means.

It was a category of vehicle that was created to avoid having to abide by the rules to reduce pollution if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[Alex321]

The laws of physics and in particular conservation of momentum would disagree with you.

If the car can stop in the same distance, then it doesn't matter how much it weighs.

Yes, it is harder to stop a 3000Kg vehicle than a 1000Kg vehicle, but the 3000Kg vehicle will almost certainly have wider tyres and beefier brakes, in order to be able to stop it just as quickly.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

If the car can stop in the same distance, then it doesn't matter how much it weighs.

If it hits you it didn’t stop in time.

 

[matticus]

Weight is less of an issue, provided the brakes are good enough. As a pedestrian, it makes no difference whether the vehicle hitting you weighs 1000Kg or 3000Kg. Either will do you a power of no good at 30mph.

And acceleration seems almost completely irrelevant to me.

Have you ever been hit by a car? (how about when the driver wasn't on the brake?) I have. It hurt!

My only SMIDSY to date (touches much wood). He was accelerating straight at me - every bhp less under his right foot would have been less pain, maybe less time walking with a stick, and less dentistry bills.

 

[Gillstay]

If the car can stop in the same distance, then it doesn't matter how much it weighs.

Yes, it is harder to stop a 3000Kg vehicle than a 1000Kg vehicle, but the 3000Kg vehicle will almost certainly have wider tyres and beefier brakes, in order to be able to stop it just as quickly.

Yep, but big brakes and tyres are polluting, and creating all that needless rubber is the same. Often they have off road or multiuse tyres and so the braking is not as good. I bet some of the small SUV's do very well, but if we had gone the other way of stopping waste we could be in a much better position.

 

[Jameshow]

If you cap it at 30k that excludes all but 8 models of EV. EVs are more expensive than you are allowing for.

Why not give the subsidy to those who really need it.. cars like Citroen e-c3

 

[icowden]

Why not give the subsidy to those who really need it.. cars like Citroen e-c3

Isn't that an SUV Crossover?

 

[Jameshow]

Isn't that an SUV Crossover?

Yes ..

https://www.citroen.co.uk/models/new-e-c3.html

Looks a decent budget ev tbh.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Size and bonnet height yes - though many cars now sold as SUV's (particularly EVs ) have normal bonnet heights.

Weight is less of an issue, provided the brakes are good enough. As a pedestrian, it makes no difference whether the vehicle hitting you weighs 1000Kg or 3000Kg. Either will do you a power of no good at 30mph.

And acceleration seems almost completely irrelevant to me.

Rapid acceleration makes these much more threatening vehicles on the road

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Have you ever been hit by a car? (how about when the driver wasn't on the brake?) I have. It hurt!

My only SMIDSY to date (touches much wood). He was accelerating straight at me - every bhp less under his right foot would have been less pain, maybe less time walking with a stick, and less dentistry bills.

This, in spades. More acceleration = potential for worse driving, and you see it all the time.

Add it to vehicles *designed* to be unaffected by urban obstacles like kerbs, potholes and traffic calming and it's a recipe for an intimidating and dangerous experience for everyone not in one of these things.

 

[DRHysted]

This, in spades. More acceleration = potential for worse driving, and you see it all the time.

Add it to vehicles *designed* to be unaffected by urban obstacles like kerbs, potholes and traffic calming and it's a recipe for an intimidating and dangerous experience for everyone not in one of these things.

But my car is supposed to see the pedestrian and override my input apply brakes and swerve to miss (apparently it will do it for cyclists as well). To be fair I haven’t tested it because I don’t drive like a dick. But I’m willing to put it to the test if someone wants to volunteer.

 

[Alex321]

If it hits you it didn’t stop in time.

Of course.

And just as true with a smaller car.

The point is that if braking distances are similar, it really doesn't matter what the weight is.

And according to Which, most classes of SUV have braking distances from 60mph within a foot of similar classes of "normal" car.

I accept that large SUVs do come out worse though.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/best-and-worst-braking-distances-a2960086475/

Have you ever been hit by a car? (how about when the driver wasn't on the brake?) I have. It hurt!

My only SMIDSY to date (touches much wood). He was accelerating straight at me - every bhp less under his right foot would have been less pain, maybe less time walking with a stick, and less dentistry bills.

I have no idea what relevance this has. Yes, I have been hit by a car when on my bike, but I really don't think the size of the car made any difference to the outcome.

The speed of the car will, of course, make a massive difference, but even a small car weighs so muych more than a pedestrian or cyclist that it is beyond the point where adding further weight makes it worse.

Big flat fronts will again make it worse, but I agreed upthread that bonnet height as a significant factor.

Yep, but big brakes and tyres are polluting, and creating all that needless rubber is the same. Often they have off road or multiuse tyres and so the braking is not as good. I bet some of the small SUV's do very well, but if we had gone the other way of stopping waste we could be in a much better position.

This, I fuly agree with.