The new improved Lance Armstrong discussion thread.*

[GrumpyGregry]

Careful Greg, I got labelled a troll for using that smiley
That encapsulates it though - some know, some dither, some deny and some hope.

I know it. I just hope they can prove it.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

We can be reasonably sure that he is dishonest. Read the bit in "It's not about the bike" where he describes how awful it was to have to produce the semen for freezing without thinking "yeah right".

Something he shares in common with the whole of humanity surely? Anyone feel free to cast the first stone if they like.....

It's more about the scale of his dishonesty, and the dishonesty of others who should be judged by higher standards.

I expect sports people to cheat. It's what they do. I don't expect sports governing bodies to cheat too.

 

[rich p]

I know it. I just hope they can prove it.

That's what makes the whole legalese bleating on here so pointless. As if those of who 'know' he's guilty don't care about due process etc.
We are the last people who would want to see him wriggle off on a technicality.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

But that bit was a colossal lie and one which may have damaged the psyches of a legion of young fanboys. Oh hang about, now I understand it all.

On reflection I was way more upset when I realised/learned that some of my minor heroes (Millar, Virenque, Pantani) were dirty than I was when it dawned on me that LA probably was too.

 

[rich p]

We can be reasonably sure that he is dishonest. Read the bit in "It's not about the bike" where he describes how awful it was to have to produce the semen for freezing without thinking "yeah right".

I was suppose if it might prove to be the last toss (ahem) of the dice, it might not be such an uplifting moment as we you experience in the shower?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

That's what makes the whole legalese bleating on here so pointless. As if those of who 'know' he's guilty don't care about due process etc.
We are the last people who would want to see him wriggle off on a technicality.

I don't think that (in bold) has always been articulated so clearly. Or frequently enough.

I don't want ANYONE involved, not a single colluding mo-fo, from the top of ASO & UCI to the bottom of this whole sad sorry mess, to walk away scot-free, and I'm genuinely worried that LA will get what his cheating doping carcass undoubtedly deserves and everyone else will continue as before, as the cash rolls in.

 

[Crackle]

Well Martin is having trouble giving away his Lance Armstrong book

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/book-raffle-every-second-counts-by-la.111056/

 

[rich p]

Well Martin is having trouble giving away his Lance Armstrong book

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/book-raffle-every-second-counts-by-la.111056/

That was a crap read even when I was a believer!

 

[MacB]

I don't think that (in bold) has always been articulated so clearly. Or frequently enough.

I don't want ANYONE involved, not a single colluding mo-fo, from the top of ASO & UCI to the bottom of this whole sad sorry mess, to walk away scot-free, and I'm genuinely worried that LA will get what his cheating doping carcass undoubtedly deserves and everyone else will continue as before, as the cash rolls in.

Now that is a serious concern, LA as the only big bad wolf and maybe even getting significantly more than his share of the blame.

Problem is Greg, as you know too well, none of them will really suffer. Oh we'll hear lots about loss of reputation and the trauma that causes them and their families. But it won't really hit them in the wallets and that's about as close to a shot through the heart as you'll get with a lot of these types. We'll see public apologies...probably plenty of tears, at least on the US side and plenty of 'how much the fans mean to me/us' type statements.

The dirty money will stay where it always does and far more of it than should be possible will be cloaked in a veil of legitimacy. A lot of the same money wil lbe involved in keeping the circus going and earning even more.

 

[rich p]

Indeed, Mac, which is why the UCI needs to be cleansed in this process but somehow it's difficult to see Fat Pat falling on his sword unless there's clear and unequivocal proof. If he and Verbruggen aren't forced out then the cleaner peloton will have to be team and rider led and Greg doesn't trust those bastards! see above!

 

[Crackle]

The UCI also needs the money now no-one is 'sponsoring' their drug testing program, hence them trying to promote their own tour. Of course promoting and policing their own tour has no conflict of interest, well it might not if done well but this is the UCI we're talking about.

 

[theclaud]

That's how I took it btw.

I guess I have a teeny advantage in this. I've met Rich P, I've ridden with him, I hold him high regard as a man of maturity, knowledge and experience (and a lovely wife who is btw WAY out of his league), and all round decent cycling bloke. I know he, like many others in here, hold my simplistic 'oh sod it, just let 'em all dope, suicide isn't illegal' opinions in contempt, which he is completely entitled to do, and I see no reason to fall out with anyone over any of this.

Not just a ridiculous old lush, then?

 

[Shaun]

I'm not a racing fan by any stretch of the imagination, but on a technical point regarding doping in general in sport, how quickly do the test results come back - would it be possible to dope-test before the start of a race as well as after? or is it too complex/timely a process (which is why it's only done after)?

Equally can Pro cyclists be grown on a normal diet, water and good training alone? Do they need supplements in order to be competitve?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Now that is a serious concern, LA as the only big bad wolf and maybe even getting significantly more than his share of the blame.

Problem is Greg, as you know too well, none of them will really suffer. Oh we'll hear lots about loss of reputation and the trauma that causes them and their families. But it won't really hit them in the wallets and that's about as close to a shot through the heart as you'll get with a lot of these types. We'll see public apologies...probably plenty of tears, at least on the US side and plenty of 'how much the fans mean to me/us' type statements.

The dirty money will stay where it always does and far more of it than should be possible will be cloaked in a veil of legitimacy. A lot of the same money wil lbe involved in keeping the circus going and earning even more.

I don't want anyone to suffer, as such. I want the cheating arses, especially of the suit wearers, thrown out of professional sport. Forever. See Shoeless Joe Jackson et al.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Not just a ridiculous old lush, then?

I see no contradiction here.