The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Fisheh]

100 pages , not read them all but a few of them.
For me you can not compare UK cycling with other countries that use cycling as a main form of transport, in the UK we cycle for fitness , pleasure and excitement. If we only ever cycled to the shops with normal clothing ,on dedicated cycle paths then protective clothing is overkill.
However cycle on UK roads at speed or through a wood on single track can not be compared.
The choice to wear a helmet or not is good and most sensible people can decide for themselves if one is needed.
If I'm plodding along a family type trail the bash hat can be hung up , however on the busy road or in the wood it's on my head.
I like to have the choice and think most people in the UK do the same....

 

[Profpointy]

100 pages , not read them all but a few of them.
For me you can not compare UK cycling with other countries that use cycling as a main form of transport, in the UK we cycle for fitness , pleasure and excitement. If we only ever cycled to the shops with normal clothing ,on dedicated cycle paths then protective clothing is overkill.
However cycle on UK roads at speed or through a wood on single track can not be compared.
The choice to wear a helmet or not is good and most sensible people can decide for themselves if one is needed.
If I'm plodding along a family type trail the bash hat can be hung up , however on the busy road or in the wood it's on my head.
I like to have the choice and think most people in the UK do the same....

I think you're still missing the key point, which I myself missed to be fair. In countries that have introduced compulsion: Australia and Ontario, helmet wearing has gone up from, I don't know, 20% to 90% or whatever, yet injury / death rate doesn't seem to have changed much if at all. Thus, the "it must help a bit" argument doesn't seem to hold up, however commensesnical it may seem. I wore a helmet back in the day, before most people did, but having looked into it a bit more, I no longer do so.

Strangely, charities and the like promoting helmets, seem to spout bogus, or downright dishonest evidence to promote their cause - which is bizarre if there was real evidence. Somehow lack of evidence, evidence to the contrary even, doesn't distract them from saving me from myself - for my own good as it were. Likewise the anger I've seen / been subject to from other people for daring to question helmets makes me wonder why a question of balance of risk should be so emotive. There's some strange psychology going on, which I really can't fathom

 

[RichardB]

In the absence of hard evidence (from anywhere in the world, it seems) we have to go back to what seems reasonable to ourselves. 'Common sense', if you like. I rode motorcycles daily for 40-odd years, so wearing a helmet of some kind is completely natural to me. There are debates on motorcycle forums which match this thread almost word for word, but they are about open-face vs full-face helmets. Some people can't understand why people want to wear a helmet that leaves the face exposed, when perfectly good full-face helmets are available, and some even want them mandated by law. The argument goes round and round. (And there is good evidence backed with statistics that all m/c helmets save lives, and that f/f helmets do better than open face. The cycle helmet debate doesn't even have that.)

So when I returned to cycling, wearing a helmet was not really a big deal. 'Common sense' said it was a good idea, and I am only now beginning to question the wisdom of that. It keeps the wind off and is somewhere to mount my headlight, so I will probably keep wearing it during the dark months. But come spring, I will re-evaluate. I need to persuade my wife first, though. She would be horrified if I set off on my commute without one. From being a convinced helmet wearer, I would now say I was agnostic.

Motorcycle debate - repeat for hi-viz, body armour, etc etc. There is even a school of thought called ATGATT (all the gear, all the time, or 'dress for the crash, not the ride') which has some poor but well-meaning American riders avoiding riding in the summer because it is too hot with all the gear on, but they can't bring themselves to venture out without all the kit. Sorry, going o/t a bit.

 

[martint235]

100 pages , not read them all but a few of them.
For me you can not compare UK cycling with other countries that use cycling as a main form of transport, in the UK we cycle for fitness , pleasure and excitement. If we only ever cycled to the shops with normal clothing ,on dedicated cycle paths then protective clothing is overkill.
However cycle on UK roads at speed or through a wood on single track can not be compared.
The choice to wear a helmet or not is good and most sensible people can decide for themselves if one is needed.
If I'm plodding along a family type trail the bash hat can be hung up , however on the busy road or in the wood it's on my head.
I like to have the choice and think most people in the UK do the same....

How will it help on a busy road?

 

[benb]

In the absence of hard evidence (from anywhere in the world, it seems)

We do have hard evidence; that helmets do not offer any detectable protection against head injuries.
This is from new Zealand.

 

[RichardB]

We do have hard evidence; that helmets do not offer any detectable protection against head injuries.

Sorry, writing in a hurry. I meant to say hard evidence in favour of helmet wearing, i.e. something that would make the case for helmets compelling.

 

[benb]

Sorry, writing in a hurry. I meant to say hard evidence in favour of helmet wearing, i.e. something that would make the case for helmets compelling.

My view is that with any intervention, without hard evidence that it will be effective, don't bother.

 

[RichardB]

My view is that with any intervention, without hard evidence that it will be effective, don't bother.

I would agree with that. However, I wasn't talking about any intervention, but just the matter of personal choice, whether to wear one or not. I would oppose any intervention (such as a mandatory helmet law) very strongly, and not just for the reasons you give.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Conclusive proof, argument over.

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Cycl...t-saved-life/story-28400894-detail/story.html

 

[mjr]

Conclusive proof, argument over.

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Cycl...t-saved-life/story-28400894-detail/story.html

Yeah. All those helmet makers putting disclaimers that they're neither designed nor tested for collisions with vehicles are just scaremongering. Particularly lovely comment from Humberside Police, with more words of advice for cyclists (including helmets and hi vis with a bonus of highway-code-contradicting cycle path advice followed by an instruction to obey the Highway Code - no similar instructions to motorists to use motorways where available and obey the Highway Code) than for the motorists who are usually to blame.

 

[ufkacbln]

Fair credit where due

The cyclist suggests the helmet "probably" saved his life

However it does evidence the BDA's campaign for increased facial protection


The Police also talked about driver behaviour, good overtaking practice and "left hooks"

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

"Make sure motorists have seen you"?

And what if they see you and decide to shunt you up the road anyway?

I've been left hooked by a bus. He decided he'd waited long enough so decided if I was dead his journey would be more convenient.
Being more visible than Liberace's underpants wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[benb]

I'm not sure how you can make sure a motorist has seen you if they are not looking properly.

Has anyone noticed how if there is a stabbing attack, the police never suggest that people ought to wear stab vests?

 

[Profpointy]

I'm not sure how you can make sure a motorist has seen you if they are not looking properly.

Has anyone noticed how if there is a stabbing attack, the police never suggest that people ought to wear stab vests?

nor do they say make sure the assaliant can see you properly

 

[martint235]

I'm not sure how you can make sure a motorist has seen you if they are not looking properly.

Has anyone noticed how if there is a stabbing attack, the police never suggest that people ought to wear stab vests?

Strangely despite turning up on her doorstep 3 times in the last 10 years with cracked ribs, my doctor has never suggested I wear MTB body armour for my commute.