GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
I've never managed to crack 60mph on a bike and now I just can't get it up any more. ;(
The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread
- Thread starter Shaun
- Start date
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- helmet helmet debate
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I have two speeding tickets for the old Trice..... a discussion with the MOD Police about the potential speeds for recumbent trikes, so we arranged for a test run at the back of the Airfield Service road.
They then clocked my speed on the two runs and issued tickets to prove the speeds
They then fined me!
Two pints of beer in the mess!
Anyway back to the original point about comparative groups.
A plastic hat is a functionless ornament until the head impacts a surface and then it may (or may not) be beneficial
So lets assume that a helmet does prevent the individual's injury every time
Then look at a cohort study of hospital admissions (for instance Thornhill's study in Glasgow)
Cyclists as a group don't even get a mention, however we can suggest that for every 100 admissions, we would have saved 43 fallers, 34 assault victims and 61 drinkers (and perhaps a couple of cyclists?)
Other figures look at road users only, Mayer Hillman suggested that for ever 16 cyclist head injuries that helmets prevented, some 40 vehicle occupants would be saved from injury
The unequivocal fact this that if we look at the actual incidence of head injury, the evidence is that far greater savings in NHS time, and personal costs of head injury would be made by introducing helmets in other groups rather than cyclists
Yet we have this fixation that somehow a person should prevent or reduce their head injury by waring a helmet when cycling yet not when participating in the activities where the intevention would have greater benefit
A plastic hat is a functionless ornament until the head impacts a surface and then it may (or may not) be beneficial
So lets assume that a helmet does prevent the individual's injury every time
Then look at a cohort study of hospital admissions (for instance Thornhill's study in Glasgow)
Cyclists as a group don't even get a mention, however we can suggest that for every 100 admissions, we would have saved 43 fallers, 34 assault victims and 61 drinkers (and perhaps a couple of cyclists?)
Other figures look at road users only, Mayer Hillman suggested that for ever 16 cyclist head injuries that helmets prevented, some 40 vehicle occupants would be saved from injury
The unequivocal fact this that if we look at the actual incidence of head injury, the evidence is that far greater savings in NHS time, and personal costs of head injury would be made by introducing helmets in other groups rather than cyclists
Yet we have this fixation that somehow a person should prevent or reduce their head injury by waring a helmet when cycling yet not when participating in the activities where the intevention would have greater benefit
GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
Has anyone done a study to figure out how much energy is absorbed by the head worn perforated polystyrene ceiling tile (as worn by a hypothetical 100kg 2m tall cyclist going head over the bars)
a) if it survives an impact with a blunt object at 10mph, 15mph & 20mph (assuming said rider has scrubbed some speed off
)
b) if it suffers catastrophic structural failure, as most seem to do in "my helmet saved my life" photo's after an impact with a blunt object at the same speeds
Or similar?
and then hypothesised the degree to which the amount of energy absorbed, in both cases, is likely to reduce the likelihood of a brain injury?
a) if it survives an impact with a blunt object at 10mph, 15mph & 20mph (assuming said rider has scrubbed some speed off
)b) if it suffers catastrophic structural failure, as most seem to do in "my helmet saved my life" photo's after an impact with a blunt object at the same speeds
Or similar?
and then hypothesised the degree to which the amount of energy absorbed, in both cases, is likely to reduce the likelihood of a brain injury?
Justinslow
Lovely jubbly
- Location
- Suffolk
It was an example where during my ride we achieved relatively high speeds, tell me where pedestrians achieve over 15 mph average for over 30 miles?
Some of you keep banging on about how cycling is similar to walking or drinking beer I think you are wrong.
And by the way it's not "willy waving" most of the riders I know and ride with ride this way.
Yes I could have an accident at any point in any of my rides which is why I choose to mostly wear a helmet, as one day it may prevent a head injury. Walking down the street or drinking beer however possible an accident may happen is for me extremely unlikely.
Mugshot
Cracking a solo.
Did you read the link which TMN took the time to put up for you?
Justinslow
Lovely jubbly
- Location
- Suffolk
I don't know anyone personally who has helmet views such as yourselves and I belong to a bike club and know a fair few riders, not one would hold your views regarding helmets
is that a fact, yet they are supposedly fit for purpose where cycle helmets are not because of the speed they are tested at........
Mugshot
Cracking a solo.
It's such a shame isn't it
The pros wear them so the club riders wear them, the club riders wear them so the commuters wear them, the commuters wear them so the Sunday riders wear them. It's just becomes part of the uniform.
Justinslow
Lovely jubbly
- Location
- Suffolk
Why is it a shame? They MAY help us when we have an accident.It's such a shame isn't it
The pros wear them so the club riders wear them, the club riders wear them so the commuters wear them, the commuters wear them so the Sunday riders wear them. It's just becomes part of the uniform.
totallyfixed
Veteran
- Location
- The only county without a McDonalds
Presumably you have seen this, I doubt many brain surgeons cycle, but this one does. I would genuinely be interested in your thoughts. The video is quite fun too.
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/brain-surgeon-theres-no-point-wearing-cycle-helmets/
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/brain-surgeon-theres-no-point-wearing-cycle-helmets/
Profpointy
Legendary Member
justin - can I ask you a direct question?
Specifically - what do you think of the Australian or Ontario expereience ? ie where helmet wearing has gone up overnight from 10% (or whatever) to 90%+ but without seeing a corresponding safety impact. This is what changed my view.
Are you aware of the result, disbelieve it, think your cycling is somehow different?
I can understand your club chums all helmet believers as , "it's obvious innit and we're doing 30mph" - which used to be my view and unless and until you look at (say) the Australian numbers that's a perfectly rational stance.
Specifically - what do you think of the Australian or Ontario expereience ? ie where helmet wearing has gone up overnight from 10% (or whatever) to 90%+ but without seeing a corresponding safety impact. This is what changed my view.
Are you aware of the result, disbelieve it, think your cycling is somehow different?
I can understand your club chums all helmet believers as , "it's obvious innit and we're doing 30mph" - which used to be my view and unless and until you look at (say) the Australian numbers that's a perfectly rational stance.
Yep. And because they make you look like a mushroom.
Profpointy
Legendary Member
don't agree with that - and think the accusation is out of order. OK he's unconvinced, maybe contrary but I believe he's participating in good faith
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Mugshot
Cracking a solo.
"When"? So it's a given now?
It's a shame because not one single individual that I have spoken to in real life about the wearing of helmets (and unfortunately there's been a few and it's never been me that brought the topic up) had any idea about the different testing standards or potential limitations of cycle helmet design or...well..,anything what so ever at all really, not one of them had gone further than "it's a helmet therefore it's good" and I'll bet it's the same with many of your club mates.
Did you have a chance to have a look at the link TMN took the time to post up for you, I went back and checked the post number for you in case you'd missed it, it's post #434
