Sportive cancelled - should the cash be refunded?

[bianchi1]

As a ltd company it's reasonable to suggest that they will be expected to operate to a higher standard compared to a local club were you pay a couple of quid.

I'm sure if people are keen and KTG remain unwilling to compromise then there is a host of reasons why going to court may prove costly for them. As quick google comes up with http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Terms_in_Consumer_Contracts_Regulations_1999#section_2

If you've bought 5 tickets for mates etc thats 150 quid and becomes worth pursuing... If you paid by credit card then that may help... It's a slippery slope and KTG are currently on very dangerous ground.

Reputation. Lifetime to build, takes a moment to destroy.

What would their reputation be if they ran the event and people died? I for one respect their courage in calling the event off.

I assume they could have just posted a note up telling riders the conditions were treacherous and all riders must sign a disclaimer accepting all risk. Then individuals could choose risk their lives for a few quid or not bother, therefore giving up all their rights to free entry in future events.

 

[billy1561]

What would their reputation be if they ran the event and people died? I for one respect their courage in calling the event off.

I assume they could have just posted a note up telling riders the conditions were treacherous and all riders must sign a disclaimer accepting all risk. Then individuals could choose risk their lives for a few quid or not bother, therefore giving up all their rights to free entry in future events.

I don't think many would disagree with their decision to cancel on safety grounds.
It's the subsequent way they have dealt with paying entrants that rankles.

 

[bianchi1]

Its quite clear in their terms and conditions

11) KILO TO GO reserves the right to terminate an individual's ride on health and safety grounds. Rides will only be postponed, re-routed or stopped for reasons of safety. Entry fees are not refundable. Entrants may not transfer or defer their entry. If KILO TO GO has to cancel an event as a result of hostilities, political unrest or other circumstances amounting to force majeure, it shall inform the entrants without delay and shall provide entrants an alternative ride in an event of comparable standard, if available.

Im not sure what people expect from companies?

 

[BimblingBee]

What would their reputation be if they ran the event and people died? I for one respect their courage in calling the event off.

The issue is withholding (at present) entry fees and ignoring the many requests for information regarding refunds.

Whilst some may be happy to lose money or transfer, for others a refund is the only option. KTG take a risk in promoting these events and their reward at the end is financial. How much their financial gain is, is largely up to them. However as part of the risk they must accept responsibility for when it does not go to plan. If they haven't done their sums, arranged insurance cover or whatever, well that's their problem to resolve not paying customers. If they make a loss then tough.

If you went to a nice restaurant and the chef messed up your expensive steak but you did not have time to wait for another would you still pay because they gave it a good go? Of course not!

 

[BimblingBee]

Its quite clear in their terms and conditions

Im not sure what people expect from companies?

The issue is that their t&c's may not in fact be legally binding.

 

[billy1561]

The issue is that their t&c's may not in fact be legally binding.

And not in the spirit of a 'sportive' ride.
It's been done to death but why don't they offer next years cat to this years entrants or at least entry transferred to any other event they have planned for this season?

 

[BimblingBee]

And not in the spirit of a 'sportive' ride.
It's been done to death but why don't they offer next years cat to this years entrants or at least entry transferred to any other event they have planned for this season?

Who knows? I think they have just dropped a massive ... and taken a chance to far with regards to insuring themselves against cancellations etc. If you are happy to transfer and it fits in for you then great, if not then money back seems pretty standard. They are a business and not a couple of chaps doing everyone a favour. Fairplay to to the people who are happy to lose their £30, to others its half a days wages.

 

[dellzeqq]

1. the first alternative date is on the day of the Etape. Whoops!
2. the second alternative date is in September. Whoops!
3. Insurance for weather cancellations can be had from Hiscox. Whoops and thrice whoops!

Wiggle? I'd rather walk.

 

[bianchi1]

And not in the spirit of a 'sportive' ride.
It's been done to death but why don't they offer next years cat to this years entrants or at least entry transferred to any other event they have planned for this season?

Im not sure that sportives have a spirit.

They are mass participant cycle event run primarily for profit. If folk want to sign up for them and pay someone to ride on public roads that's up to them, but when you tick that "have you read our terms and conditions" button, make sure that you have!

And as for the restaurant analogy:

"If you went to a nice restaurant and the chef messed up your expensive steak but you did not have time to wait for another would you still pay because they gave it a good go? Of course not!"

Well if the menu said it was horse steak....but you didn't read the menu properly...should you still pay even though you expected beef?

Indecently I work as a chef and have had customers refusing to pay for smoked salmon because it was raw..a lasagna because it was too hot..a blue steak because it was raw..a well done steak because it was over cooked..a salad made with beef tomatoes because it had no beef on it...a sea food salad because it had prawns on it..king prawns because they came with their heads on!

 

[bianchi1]

1. the first alternative date is on the day of the Etape. Whoops!
2. the second alternative date is in September. Whoops!
3. Insurance for weather cancellations can be had from Hiscox. Whoops and thrice whoops!

Wiggle? I'd rather walk.

Maybe the answer would be to have a two tier pricing..One price for a ticket with no insurance and one with.

 

[dellzeqq]

the organisers could and should have taken out insurance. Or simply have been prepared to swallow the loss.

 

[bof]

I have no sympathy with the sportive organisers - if you charge 30-50p per mile to cycle on roads then you should damned well pay for insurance.

However when you get down to the voluntary level - club reliability rides, audaxes etc. some of which have got cancelled this year, I'd be sorry to see people expecting refunds there. It can be hard enough getting organisers without exposing them to an extra risk of their money going down a drain, or obliging them to go through all the palaver that comes with insurance.

 

[bianchi1]

the organisers could and should have taken out insurance. Or simply have been prepared to swallow the loss.

The participants could and should have taken out insurance. Or simply be prepared to swallow the loss. The company was selling a product that was advertised as having a no money back condition. Surely as grow ups we can choose to buy their product or not buy their product.

 

[Kestevan]

The participants could and should have taken out insurance. Or simply be prepared to swallow the loss. The company was selling a product that was advertised as having a no money back condition. Surely as grow ups we can choose to buy their product or not buy their product.

The danger for KTH is that I and many others like me will simply "choose not to buy" any further products from them. It's not like there's a shortage of sportive events or organisers.....And these days word of mouth, or rather "word of Facebook" means that a company who is seen to adhere to the letter, rather than the spirit may find themselves with an un-enviable reputation very quickly.

 

[BimblingBee]

The participants could and should have taken out insurance. Or simply be prepared to swallow the loss. The company was selling a product that was advertised as having a no money back condition. Surely as grow ups we can choose to buy their product or not buy their product.

I feel that is a very simplistic view of the situation and likely similar to the one the organisers of this commercial venture may have taken. Imagine if all 3500 customers (unlikely but plausible) took them to court to recover their fees? That's how a business should be viewing the risks.

If you look back at the weather for the last 2 weeks in March over a long period of time you would realise that weather serious enough to cancel an event like this is relatively common. A customer is exposed to the financial outlay of £30 plus other minor costs. A commercial provider is liable to £???????. I think they have been very naive if they did not foresee this.