New car disaster!

[Dogtrousers]

If the data is just e.g time-series controller inputs and GPS location, I'd argue that's not personally identifiable unless accompanied by evidence that puts a named driver behind the wheel at that time. .

Not necessarily behind the wheel. Not necessarily even in the car.

For instance if the data has a location and a phone number then the phone number can be treated as an identifier of a person, and the location is information about that person. It's "where the person was" (whether or not they were driving). Under those circs I'd say this is probably Personally Identifiable Information.

You could argue that if the data has a location and an account id, and the account id identifies a person then the data is info about that person, whether they were there or not. It's "the location of the account holder's car".

And the manufacturer could say, I need to process this data in order to provide a service to fulfil a contract (to make the car work).

Now if you wanted to use the info for prosecution of someone, that's a different kettle of fish: I put it to you, Mr X that you were driving the vehicle at place Y at time Z, then yes you'd probably need additional evidence. But just for it to be classed as PII (or not) that's something that lawyers like to blather over for ages.

 

[CXRAndy]

My brother have recently got a new EV Mini and lane assist is provided free for a few months after which he has to subscribe if he wants to keep it (dirrferent rates for yearly or single one-off purchase). His comment from a recent motorway drive is "it doesn't like spray off the road" - kept dropping out as it was a rainy day.

Ian

BMW tried subscription for heated seats and steering wheel. I believe they backtracked from the bad PR

 

[Drago]

BMW tried subscription for heated seats and steering wheel. I believe they backtracked from the bad PR

And having not learned someone else's lesson Audi then announced they were doing the same.

 

[rogerzilla]

if you indicate before changing lanes it doesnt do this - did you used to have a BMW or a Audi?

It did it on a bend in a road that is narrow, but still has a centre white line. It tries to keep a certain distance from the white line when, in practice,that's not possible. It can't "see" the edge of the road unless that also has a white line.

These systems are like Sex Panther cologne - 60% of the time, they work every time.

 

[EckyH]

In the USA folk wall about with signs printed on their T shirts to confound Tesla drivers in just this manner.

Could you please tell a (reliable) source of that?
Tried to find something but found only some articles about people who wear clothes with number plate writings on it and strings like "NULL" on it to confound automatic number plate recognition. They bridle against the (mass) surveillance with that.

E.

 

[Drago]

Could you please tell a (reliable) source of that?
Tried to find something but found only some articles about people who wear clothes with number plate writings on it and strings like "NULL" on it to confound automatic number plate recognition. They bridle against the (mass) surveillance with that.

E.

I read it in a paper, possibly the Guardian as that's my typical tipple when i can sneak in and out the newsagent unobserved, but ...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr51RvvcBL0



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofw3TeHRxcE


So people are messing about with them.

And if you want to join in yourself...

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1400558304/stop-tshirt-tesla-shirt-gag-t-shirt-fun

 

[Illaveago]

as cyclists could we use it to our advantage, a large 20mph speed limit on our backs would alert drivers - or could it just annoy them

What if it was a No Entry sign?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

It would get more nuanced if the car has driver profiles, and would hinge on how much data the profile has.

If forensics have your phone location plus car data, they could almost certainly workout if you were the driver. Unless of course you and your wife have the drivers seat in same position when driving. The way you accelerate, brake, and turn the steering wheel would also likely give different digital fingerprints between drivers.

 

[Gunk]

Big brother is welcome to track every car journey, phone activity and even my web browsing activity, I have absolutely nothing to hide and my life is so boring and suburban, I’m sure they would nod off after about 10 minutes.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Genius. You are on to something. All for annoying drivers

Why?

 

[Drago]

Soooo....did he return the car?

 

[simongt]

Our two year old Kia Ceed has a LOT more 'bells & whistles' than it's predecessor, a 58 plate Hyundai I.30.
I've sussed how to 'turn off' the ones I can do without so I can still use my brain & eyes rather than rely on electronic devices for so much.
And I still don't entirely trust the reversing camera & sensor - !

 

[Alex321]

There was an interesting episode of Horizon on donkey's years ago about the safety of aircraft cockpits that were full of alarms and warnings crying wolf all the time.

Which law forces people to buy cars they don't want? What will manufacturers say to the government if nobody's buying their cars any more?

Not going to happen. Most new cars aren't bought by individuals anyhow, they are bought by fleets. But even individuals, when they know that all ne cars have this, are not just going to refuse to buy a car because of it.

In the case of speeding offences, the registered keeper can be fined if they don't say who was driving.

Which tends to prove the point that what the car does is not "personal information" within the meaning of the GDPR, if the registered keeper has to give the information.

 

[Dadam]

If forensics have your phone location plus car data, they could almost certainly workout if you were the driver. Unless of course you and your wife have the drivers seat in same position when driving. The way you accelerate, brake, and turn the steering wheel would also likely give different digital fingerprints between drivers.

Of course it's not going to fool forensics, it was just a discussion on how it might be interpreted under GDPR: PII or not PII.

For instance if the data has a location and a phone number then the phone number can be treated as an identifier of a person, and the location is information about that person. It's "where the person was" (whether or not they were driving). Under those circs I'd say this is probably Personally Identifiable Information.

I'm not an expert on GDPR but I do think that without a direct link to a person like an account number or phone number, the data on how the car was driven isn't PII by itself. Of course if you start linking datasets then you can very easily turn it into identifiable data, but I'd say it's not identifiable in and of itself.

 

[Dogtrousers]

[the fact that the registered keeper can be fined].... tends to prove the point that what the car does is not "personal information" within the meaning of the GDPR, if the registered keeper has to give the information.

You're mixing up the use of info for prosecution purposes with the GDPR definition of PII. Two very different things.

If you have some information, could be absolutely anything, that has an identifier that links it directly or indirectly to a person, it's PII.

Whether an organisation is permitted to store and process that info, under what circumstances, what rights the person has and what responsibilities the organisation has, that's what GDPR is all about.