New car disaster!

[Dogtrousers]

I'm not an expert on GDPR but I do think that without a direct link to a person like an account number or phone number, the data on how the car was driven isn't PII by itself. Of course if you start linking datasets then you can very easily turn it into identifiable data, but I'd say it's not identifiable in and of itself.

The key phrase is whether a party can be identified "directly or indirectly". It's all a bit woolly and best left to proper lawyers to actually decide questions like that.

 

[Drago]

Will @rogerzilla be taking it back today? I want to know what they say.

 

[Psamathe]

Could be an interesting/complicated area. Most people will be happy to sign the 90 pages of minute Ts & Cs just to get it out of the way.

Probably where I differ from others. I do read even online registration agreements and will on occasions not click the "OK" when I'm not happy with their undertakings. And sometimes lax privacy (eg UK Biobank "lapses") have meant I've withdrawn from medical trials, specifically long term dementia trials which saddened me given my Dad died in a home with fairly severe dementia but I wouldn't accept the lax privacy from some partners.

Ian

 

[Psamathe]

The data can only show who's phone is/was connected to a vehicle, not prove who was driving.

(Going a bit off-topic now so maybe I should drop this aspect?) It becomes a very difficult judgement call and one I suspect would end-up being "balance of probabilities". Ultimately proving something was "personal" can only be done in person with witnesses knowing who you are or with eg passport, etc.

Open a bank account online as can that account be proven to be "personal"? Could be somebody else using your computer ...

Ian

 

[presta]

Not going to happen.

I didn't say that it is:

It needs a few more to do the same.

Which tends to prove the point that what the car does is not "personal information" within the meaning of the GDPR, if the registered keeper has to give the information.

The legislation I referred to dates back to the days long before cars stored any data, so it doesn't really prove anything other than that registered keepers can be made responsible for naming a driver if the government want them to be.

 

[fossyant]

What does the car think?

Well we know it says 'beeeeep, beeeeep'

 

[BoldonLad]

I’m afraid it is a legal requirement,

​

Speed limiters are required on all new cars from July 7 2024​

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/103530/speed-limiters-now-required-all-new-cars-know-rules-and-how-they-work#:~:text=All new cars sold in,mandated for newly introduced models.

Legal retirement in the EU, for better or worse, we are no longer in the EU.

I would not call the devices speed LIMITERS, since they do not actually limit the speed, they simply issue a warning if the vehicle is (supposedly at least) exceeding the speed limit.

My car has these devices, it has made my wife's role as "co-driver" obsolete.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Legal retirement in the EU, for better or worse, we are no longer in the EU.

True, but the vehicle manufacturers don't much care about that, as they don't seem inclined to complicate the supply chain by producing UK-regs specific editions, they'll just apply the regulations applying to the biggest market (the EU) so it becomes a de-facto standard.

Although, that said, manufacturers already have to do one glaring piece of customisation for the UK (right hand drive) so who knows.

I would not call the devices speed LIMITERS, since they do not actually limit the speed, they simply issue a warning if the vehicle is (supposedly at least) exceeding the speed limit.

That article says "If a driver doesn’t respond to override the system by braking - or indeed accelerating should circumstances demand it - then the car will slowly reduce power and automatically slow to the limit. "

 

[BoldonLad]

It did it on a bend in a road that is narrow, but still has a centre white line. It tries to keep a certain distance from the white line when, in practice,that's not possible. It can't "see" the edge of the road unless that also has a white line.

These systems are like Sex Panther cologne - 60% of the time, they work every time.

Is it that good?, may get some

 

[DCLane]

Legal retirement in the EU, for better or worse, we are no longer in the EU.

I would not call the devices speed LIMITERS, since they do not actually limit the speed, they simply issue a warning if the vehicle is (supposedly at least) exceeding the speed limit.

My car has these devices, it has made my wife's role as "co-driver" obsolete.

SWMBO's Honda Jazz is a 2009 model and has the option for adding a speed warning. Given her propensity for going over the limit in a 30mph area, and subsequent letters from the speed camera people, we added it to her car at 30mph. She's not had a letter since.

So they do work in some cases. Others, myself included, probably find the beeps annoying: my Honda CR-V has a driver monitoring system which rates my driving afterwards in the form of tree symbols: green and growing for 'good' driving, red and diminishing for 'poor' driving. I think mine's died.

 

[BoldonLad]

True, but the vehicle manufacturers don't much care about that, as they don't seem inclined to complicate the supply chain by producing UK-regs specific editions, they'll just apply the regulations applying to the biggest market (the EU) so it becomes a de-facto standard.

Although, that said, manufacturers already have to do one glaring piece of customisation for the UK (right hand drive) so who knows.


That article says "If a driver doesn’t respond to override the system by braking - or indeed accelerating should circumstances demand it - then the car will slowly reduce power and automatically slow to the limit. "

interesting, I haven't noticed that happening, I will check it out. The only two circumstances I have noticed that the car "automatically" takes action to reduce speed/brake are:

- Active cruise control, when it will slow automatically as you approach a slower moving vehicle in your lane

- If you approach "too close" to an object, either as you move forward, or back, the vehicle applies the brakes automatically. I have not experimented to find out exactly what "too close" is in centimetres.

 

[BoldonLad]

SWMBO's Honda Jazz is a 2009 model and has the option for adding a speed warning. Given her propensity for going over the limit in a 30mph area, and subsequent letters from the speed camera people, we added it to her car at 30mph. She's not had a letter since.

So they do work in some cases. Others, myself included, probably find the beeps annoying: my Honda CR-V has a driver monitoring system which rates my driving afterwards in the form of tree symbols: green and growing for 'good' driving, red and diminishing for 'poor' driving. I think mine's died.

Yes, my car (Toyota Yaris Hybrid 2023) has that, I always get a gold star (honest). Previous car (Renault Captur) had a constant monitoring system, displaying red/amber/green light. It annoyed my wife so much (when she was driving) I taped over the display).

 

[Alex321]

Legal retirement in the EU, for better or worse, we are no longer in the EU.

I would not call the devices speed LIMITERS, since they do not actually limit the speed, they simply issue a warning if the vehicle is (supposedly at least) exceeding the speed limit.

Not true.

The don't apply brakes (so can go above the sopeed set on a downhill), and you can override them by pressing hard on the accelerator. But if you use the accelerator normally, and are not on a downhill, they will prevent you accelerating above the set speed.

Most cars have had manually set speed limiters for some time now, including both mine and my wife's 2015 cars. Mine is too easy to override, you don't need to press the accelerator as hard as you should. My wife's is better that way.

The difference with the ones required since July is that they set the limit (to the speed limit of the road), rather than you, using GPS or signs or a combination to decide what the limit is.

 

[Alex321]

True, but the vehicle manufacturers don't much care about that, as they don't seem inclined to complicate the supply chain by producing UK-regs specific editions, they'll just apply the regulations applying to the biggest market (the EU) so it becomes a de-facto standard.

Although, that said, manufacturers already have to do one glaring piece of customisation for the UK (right hand drive) so who knows.

They are still fitting them to all new cars sold in the UK since July.

Even including the retro-fitting to cars that had already been built but not sold.

 

[Drago]

Legal retirement in the EU, for better or worse, we are no longer in the EU.

Although the UK government has adopted the legislation into UK law.