New car disaster!

[Psamathe]

I do find the "lane assist" feature annoying

mostly because it mistakes some road marking for lane marking and wants me to move left/right

and in the wet then a shiny bit of tarmac can have the same effect

I leave it switched on because it can occasionally be useful - it can be switched off permanently by a button by the door

My brother have recently got a new EV Mini and lane assist is provided free for a few months after which he has to subscribe if he wants to keep it (dirrferent rates for yearly or single one-off purchase). His comment from a recent motorway drive is "it doesn't like spray off the road" - kept dropping out as it was a rainy day.

Ian

 

[Marchrider]

And possibly it will get uploaded to the manufacturer when the vehicle gets serviced, or maybe even more frequently if that's possible.

I'm just guessing, I have no knowledge of the subject, but if I was a manufacturer and my vehicles were gathering lots of lovely telemetry I'd want to make sure I got my hands on it.

take a look at this story
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rossbow-as-he-fixed-satellite-dish-court-told

The GPS in the car was destroyed by the fire but information retained by Jaguar Land Rover showed that on the night of 17 April it had travelled to the driveway of Corrigan’s home and then to nearby Porthdafach beach, in what Rouch alleged was a reconnaissance before the killing.

On Thursday 18 April, the car was driven from Whall’s home to Porthdafach beach, where it remained for an hour and a half until 12.42am on 19 April, about 12 minutes after Corrigan was shot, the court heard.

The system showed the boot was opened and closed when the car arrived and before it left.

If the motor manufacturers are keeping data on there servers of stuff like when the boot was opened and closed - they will very likely be keeping a record of every time a safety device is switched off.

47% of people turn them off, apparently. Some will do it because they want to speed but others (like me) do it because they simply don't work and are both distracting and dangerous. Lane departure is potentially lethal on narrow UK roads, and a previous car thought the M5 was limited to 20mph because it saw a sign in the lane coned-off for roadworks. Here are two places where speed limit recognition is caught out every time:

I don't disagree, in fact I am quite on your side - however if you are involved in a very serious accident, some barrister will be standing up in court and asking why you switched this feature off, may be putting it to you that if you had not switched it off you would have been travelling 6mph slower and that pedestrian may of survived. It will sound terrible

 

[vickster]

My car doesn't even have auto wipers or lights. And it has a proper metal ignition key.

I do, however, have a satnav that pings if I exceed the limit* and a wife who says "watch your lane positioning" and "mind your gap". So pretty much the same.

*Well, it would if I did but of course I don't

Mine doesn't even have a screen/satnav! Keep fit windows in the back and a CD player (which I will very much miss when I have to get a new car) and non DAB radio!

 

[Dogtrousers]

Mine doesn't even have a screen/satnav! Keep fit windows in the back and a CD player (which I will very much miss when I have to get a new car) and non DAB radio!

My satnav is attached to the windscreen with a sucker I have a CD player/analogue radio but it doesn't work very well.

 

[gbb]

2018 Mazda has speed warnings , no lane assist etc...but I like the speed warning. I don't have to take my eyes off the road, single beep at the allowed limit, triple beep when you reach 36 in a 30 for example. I know where I am without distraction, the beeping doesn't bother me at all (it does annoy my wife if we are in town)
The thought this data may be used against you in the event of an accident is concerning. (If that ever came)

 

[Psamathe]

If the motor manufacturers are keeping data on there servers of stuff like when the boot was opened and closed - they will very likely be keeping a record of every time a safety device is switched off.

An interesting aspect not only what is uploaded to servers but what is stored on-device and for how long. So if you were involved in a serious accident would investigators be able to look at your speeds in relation to the speed limits for eg the trip you were on and in court would this enable "you were clearly driving in an unsafe manner having been eg an average of 10 mph above effective speed limits for the 10 miles proceeding the accident ..." (ignoring that for the 1 mile before the accident you were 10 mph below the effective speed limit. ie could those contesting you use the devices as evidence? Bit like the aircraft Black Box.

Ian

 

[Jody]

If the motor manufacturers are keeping data on there servers of stuff like when the boot was opened and closed - they will very likely be keeping a record of every time a safety device is switched off.

I was reading an interesting article about how forensics are using the mass of data that new cars spew out/save/upload to colve crime. The case was about a murder that was proved due to the doors/windows being used, it's GPS location and also who's phones had been seen by the car entertainment system when they entered.

Apparently the most modern of car can produce up to a million data points an hour and almost everything is logged right down to the obsucre things like which vents you want air blowing from. I also didn't realise the amount of cars that have permenant connectivity so it can transfer this data to the manufacturers

 

[Drago]

So you taken it back yet @rogerzilla ? What did they say?

 

[Gunk]

So you taken it back yet @rogerzilla ? What did they say?

 

[Dogtrousers]

So you taken it back yet @rogerzilla ? What did they say?

I'm sorry Roger, I'm afraid I can't do that.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

What would happen if the car is sold and the new owner writes to the car company saying they do not consent to the data being stored??

is this possible?
I presume it is ut what if that disables the "safety devices"

 

[Psamathe]

What would happen if the car is sold and the new owner writes to the car company saying they do not consent to the data being stored??

Or you write to car company requesting your data be deleted (as per your right under GDPR Right to Erasure).

Ian

 

[Dadam]

Or you write to car company requesting your data be deleted (as per your right under GDPR Right to Erasure).

Ian

Ah but it's not "your" data as in about you. It's about the car and by implication whoever was driving it at the time. The data in the car wouldn't be "personal information" according to GDPR.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisation...t-is-it/what-is-personal-information-a-guide/

• If it is possible to identify an individual directly from the information you are processing, then that information may be personal data.

Unless the driver's name or other personally identifiable driving licence number etc is in the car's logs, it would need another source of data to link that information to the car's logs. So not identifiable directly.

 

[Psamathe]

Ah but it's not "your" data as in about you. It's about the car and by implication whoever was driving it at the time. The data in the car wouldn't be "personal information" according to GDPR.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisation...t-is-it/what-is-personal-information-a-guide/


Unless the driver's name or other personally identifiable driving licence number etc is in the car's logs, it would need another source of data to link that information to the car's logs. So not identifiable directly.

I would certainly be arguing the case based on eg "What identifies an individual could be as simple as a name or a number or could include other identifiers such as an IP address or a cookie identifier, or other factors.". Indirect identification can still make it personal information "If you cannot directly identify an individual from that information, then you need to consider whether the individual is still identifiable. You should take into account the information you are processing together with all the means reasonably likely to be used by either you or any other person to identify that individual."

The debate could be "Even if an individual is identified or identifiable, directly or indirectly, from the data you are processing, it is not personal data unless it ‘relates to’ the individual." and one could argue that much of the data relates to the instructions you werte giving to the vehhicle (eg accelerator, brake, steering, etc., inputs from you).

But then on privacy I'll often pursue cases further than many would eg I'm still pursuing a significant retailer for passing some details about a purchase to a 3rd party for marketing purposes despite my not agreeing to it.

Ian

 

[Psamathe]

One aspect I wonder about is when you but an EV 2nd hand privately do you have to tell the manufacturer you've purchased it. I can't imagine DVLA would be passing owner information to manufacturers other than in recall situations.

Ian