New car disaster!

[DaveReading]

What about gaffer tape over the camera? One assumes that disabling it wont break any UK laws - article seems to say it's an EU law not UK but how does that affect things if you drive your car in the EU?

Ian

I'm struggling to understand how the camera is powering the speed limiter.

 

[Drago]

The manufacturer will know it's changed hands the moment the new owner registered their phone to it and completes all the details, without which many functions won't, er,function.

 

[DCLane]

I'm struggling to understand how the camera is powering the speed limiter.

The camera in my Honda CR-V reads the speed limit signs and shows it on the dashboard. There is a difficulty here in that it sometimes reads the sign wrong and/or reads it off a slip road/side road and gets confused.

 

[Psamathe]

The manufacturer will know it's changed hands the moment the new owner registered their phone to it and completes all the details, without which many functions won't, er,function.

I don't have an EV so am not aware of its requirement that you register your phone with it. That would enable one to block the car from the data collection servers (eg through a configurable DNS). I'd sort of assumed the car would have it's own SIM and/or use LTE-M or NB-IoT. Could be limiting if you wanted to lend your car to somebody who doesn't have a phone or doesn't want their phone number used (I wont give my phone number to people who use WhatsApp and give it access to their Address Book).

Ian

 

[Dadam]

I don't have an EV so am not aware of its requirement that you register your phone with it. That would enable one to block the car from the data collection servers (eg through a configurable DNS). I'd sort of assumed the car would have it's own SIM and/or use LTE-M or NB-IoT. Could be limiting if you wanted to lend your car to somebody who doesn't have a phone or doesn't want their phone number used (I wont give my phone number to people who use WhatsApp and give it access to their Address Book).

Ian

I assume the car has its own SIM. I believe that to be the case even in my 10 year old BMW, for the connected services like real time traffic that I don't use since the original buyer's 3 year subscription lapsed.

 

[rogerzilla]

I got onto the head office, who were very helpful. They suggested a couple of settings which are "sticky", one of them non-obvious, and it no longer beeps for every change in speed limit, which is what was really objectionable. The owner's manual is useless in this respect as it gives no indication which settings will revert to their default on restart, and which ones won't.

 

[Dadam]

I would certainly be arguing the case based on eg "What identifies an individual could be as simple as a name or a number or could include other identifiers such as an IP address or a cookie identifier, or other factors.". Indirect identification can still make it personal information "If you cannot directly identify an individual from that information, then you need to consider whether the individual is still identifiable. You should take into account the information you are processing together with all the means reasonably likely to be used by either you or any other person to identify that individual."

The debate could be "Even if an individual is identified or identifiable, directly or indirectly, from the data you are processing, it is not personal data unless it ‘relates to’ the individual." and one could argue that much of the data relates to the instructions you werte giving to the vehhicle (eg accelerator, brake, steering, etc., inputs from you).

But then on privacy I'll often pursue cases further than many would eg I'm still pursuing a significant retailer for passing some details about a purchase to a 3rd party for marketing purposes despite my not agreeing to it.

Ian

If the data is just e.g time-series controller inputs and GPS location, I'd argue that's not personally identifiable unless accompanied by evidence that puts a named driver behind the wheel at that time.

IMHO arguing that your steering inputs constitute personally identifiable information is a stretch. You could argue that a device Id from a driver's mobile phone linked at that time would identify that person as the driver. I'm not sure. If my wife drives my car and I'm sat in the passenger seat, the car will still connect to my phone, so the control inputs are not personally identifiable.

It would get more nuanced if the car has driver profiles, and would hinge on how much data the profile has.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I got onto the head office, who were very helpful. They suggested a couple of settings which are "sticky", one of them non-obvious, and it no longer beeps for every change in speed limit, which is what was really objectionable. The owner's manual is useless in this respect as it gives no indication which settings will revert to their default on restart, and which ones won't.

What does the car think?

 

[Alex321]

I'm struggling to understand how the camera is powering the speed limiter.

It reads the speed limit signs. Most of them use a hybrid system which combines the camera input with GPS data.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Or you write to car company requesting your data be deleted (as per your right under GDPR Right to Erasure).

Not necessarily that simple. That right only really applies if the info is held on the basis that you consented. It doesn't just work for any old data held on any basis (you can't write to the bank and ask them to forget your overdraft) so you'd need to know the lawful basis and purpose under which it is held. (If it even is personally identifiable info - as discussed above).

Could be an interesting/complicated area. Most people will be happy to sign the 90 pages of minute Ts & Cs just to get it out of the way.

 

[presta]

I'm particularly twitchy about things that bleep unnecessarily.

There was an interesting episode of Horizon on donkey's years ago about the safety of aircraft cockpits that were full of alarms and warnings crying wolf all the time.

It is the law. It doesn't matter how many "do the same", it is here to stay.

Which law forces people to buy cars they don't want? What will manufacturers say to the government if nobody's buying their cars any more?

I'd argue that's not personally identifiable unless accompanied by evidence that puts a named driver behind the wheel at that time.

In the case of speeding offences, the registered keeper can be fined if they don't say who was driving.

 

[Gwylan]

What about gaffer tape over the camera? One assumes that disabling it wont break any UK laws - article seems to say it's an EU law not UK but how does that affect things if you drive your car in the EU?

Ian

Blob of strategic mud maybe.

 

[Gwylan]

Well that explains a lot.
I rented a car a week ago. It was the cheapest one I could find. Did all I was going to need.
Picked it up, had 900 miles on the clock.

Had every conceivable bell or whistle. I didn't have the time or inclination to disable them.
Some alarms distracted and took a while to even understand.
Still don't know what the little coffee cup symbol was meant to tell me.

Other than I'll be walking on broken glass before I buy a Nissan Joke

 

[T4tomo]

lane departure tried to put me in a ditch. It's unacceptable.

if you indicate before changing lanes it doesnt do this - did you used to have a BMW or a Audi?

 

[newts]

The data can only show who's phone is/was connected to a vehicle, not prove who was driving.