My arrest story

[Mortiroloboy]

And it will be in all countries for ever more! Even if you killed every terrorist and every person who ever supported them, you'd soon have a new group come along who were willing to kill and die for whatever particular cause they believed in.

The 'war on terrorism' can never be won. If it is okay to suspend civil liberties to deal with the current batch of terrorists, then they will be suspended indefinitely. Do we really want that? If random searches are okay, how about tapping every phonecall? Intercepting every email? (Actually, GCHQ probably does that already!) Why not bug every house? How about installing a few agents provocateurs in every town and village - if you are really innocent, you wouldn't be caught out! Do away with jury trials? Suspend habeas corpus? Allow torture in 'special cases'?
Do we really want to live in a world where it would be okay for a deaf or non-English-speaking 'foreign-looking' person to be killed when running to catch a bus, because some trigger-happy policeman shot him for failing to stop when ordered to do so?

How about summary execution if a law enforcement officer thinks your iPod looks like a bomb?

People are being horribly slaughtered and maimed in their thousands every year by idiots in cars, and bugger all is done about it. If someone causes one hundredth of that carnage deliberately, life as we know it has to come to an end...

The destruction of the World Trade Centre was an outrage, as were the bombings in London. And Guantanamo Bay...

The way to try and beat terrorists is by being more civilised than them and showing them up for what they are. That way, their support crumbles and their communities help the law catch up with the few fanatics left. If you sink down to their level, then they've won!

You've been reading too many John Le carre novels. S.44 Terrorism Act 2000 operations are carried out in the Capital and other specified areas for limited time periods throughout the country for limited periods and are stringently controlled, police officers can stop you and ask you to account for your presence at any given location, a person may be entirely innocent of any offence.

These operations build a picture called intelligence, this is how people who would seek to kill and injure those of us who do not follow their doctrine to be caught.

 

[Mortiroloboy]

No, it wasn't. It was quite clearly racist and arbitrary. It was motivated by no reasonable suspicion at all. You simply cannot start to accept the erosion of liberties that the law is supposed to protect by recourse to arguing that those liberties are under threat.

In addition, you cannot simply argue that whatever is the law is automatically right or justified. The Terrorism Act is one of the most vague and poorly worded laws that has been put into place recently, and unfortunately part of a trend towards badly constructed law in recent years.

You are wrong my friend, the arrest and process were perfectly lawful, what is in question though is the unprofessional way the officers involved are alleged to have behaved.

The OP has a case as far as that aspect goes and he should press for local informal resolution, which is probably the best outcome he can achieve, which will result in the officers, if found to have acted improperly being given advice. However from the evidence offered by the OP they certainly haven't acted unlawfully.

No ones liberties were eroded by those events, but consider this had the officer stopped someone who was intending to detonate a device or was engaged in a hostile reconnaissance, and his action averted an act of terrorism would you be bleating about civil liberties being eroded.

 

[Mortiroloboy]

I'm Asian and Muslim - most of you know that already, probably. As I was reading through pzycoman's blog I thought to myself 'Are you Asian? Are you muslim?'...saw your photo, pzycoman - you look Arab, are you?

There's a lot of horror stories I've personally heard from people I know. Mate of mine (muslim/asian) was arrested by the poleeece as he happened to have the same surname as someone on some gov't 'wanted' list. His credit cards were cancelled, bank account frozen, even PayPal asked him for his friggin passport before they would open an account for him. This was a couple of years ago and he's still trying to get his life/family back to normal.

my wife is absolutely convinced our phone calls are being tapped (stating some type of 'static' in the background), but i'm sceptical about it.

Doesn't matter how good an egg you are, you still come under suspicion on account of being brown/muslim, which is a sad reflection on the society we live in and the powers that the Authorities have.

i honestly don't know what i'd do if i was in your situation, pzycoman. With my placid nature I'd probably try and forget about it and not pursue it. It might be asking for more trouble. That said, you should do what you feel is right.

Do either you or your wife work in an environment where it would be possible for you to gather intelligence that may be of use to an enemy? Are either of you actively involved in extremist minority religeous groups?

Obtaining permission for directed covert surveilance is a 'nightmare' of paperwork (believe me) I speak from experience, firstly you have to file a six page request in which you have to justify every single aspect of the application to a superintendant, and it's not easy to do that, things like collateral intrusion are considered, which is usually the point where aplications under RIPA fail.

If the application is successful it is reviewed on a regular basis and if any of the stringent criteria no longer exist then the application is revoked.

Check with BT it's probably a line fault.

 

[Mortiroloboy]

This is just an excuse for racist bullying.
I'm half tempted to walk around london in a burkha, taking pictures, get myself arrested, only to remove it and reveal I'm a moderately well off white middle class professional from a rural tory constituency. See how far they woudl go to dig up some dirt (actually they wouldn't need to go that far...!)

Actually, that's quite a good idea for a mass protest against this sort of fascism.

I wouldn't recommend that course of action, I'm sure you are just joshing, but seriously what a daft idea.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

I'm horrified by it too. From what you say about what you were wearing, you didn't have suspicious wires dangling. The arresting's officer's reasons for arrest would have been recorded by the CCTV equipment in the custody suite, so there will be a record of the lie he told. It's a useful starting point.

 

[Kestevan]

Welcome to Airstrip One.

 

[Twiggy]

""...S.44 Terrorism Act 2000 operations are carried out in the Capital and other areas throughout the country for limited periods and are stringently controlled, police officers can stop you and ask you to account for your presence at any given location, a person may be entirely innocent of any offence. but will still be stopped, searched and arrested.""



Fixed that for ya...

 

[Mortiroloboy]

""...S.44 Terrorism Act 2000 operations are carried out in the Capital and other areas throughout the country for limited periods and are stringently controlled, police officers can stop you and ask you to account for your presence at any given location, a person may be entirely innocent of any offence. but will still be stopped, searched and arrested.""



Fixed that for ya...

Look, the officer at the scene/time/date decided that there was sufficient evidence to arrest the OP, the custody Sergeant considered the the arrest to be lawful and authorised his detention.
The only issue I can see is the allegedly unprofessional way the arresting officer behaved, lets get a bit of perspective.

The OP can make a complaint, and I'm sure it will be fully investigated.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, we live in uncertain times

The police are doing a difficult job, lets support their best efforts, not get all pink and fluffy about the constant threat of terrorism.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

The law is poorly conceived, vaguely worded and allows this kind of arbitrary arrest. Many analysts warned of this at the time. It could have been even worse (for example allowing members of the armed forces he same powers within the UK) but it is still typical of the kinds of badly constructed laws that we have had introduced by this government (and the previous one too).

And I don't know who you are, Mortiroloboy, or what your basis for saying what you are arguing is, but just saying 'we live in uncertain times' is not an argument. We always live in uncertain times. This country is based on the liberty of its people - if it is this liberty that terrorists wish to destroy, it is rather stupid for the state to do their work for them. That's not 'pink and fluffy' and saying that simply demonstrates a profound contempt for the bases of democratic societies.

And I'm sorry, but from personal and professional experience, I do not share your optimism about impartial investigation, lessons being learned and wrongs being righted.

 

[col]

The conduct and treatment was inexcusable,but other than that,i think if the slightest thing gets them thinking they have to act,im sure they will have some sort of topic or words that when they hear pricks their ears and makes them act.very sorry and dissapointed to hear how you were handled and talked to,and glad you came out of it ok,get that complaint in to the chief constable,and say you are looking forward to the results of his investigation,as you are still upset at the way you were treated,if my brother in laws advice about complaing is anything to go by(he is ex cop),im sure the ignorant and arrogant ones will not be happy,and there will be no comeback either,it could cost them dear in the career department.

 

[wafflycat]

And I don't know who you are, Mortiroloboy, or what your basis for saying what you are arguing is, but just saying 'we live in uncertain times' is not an argument. We always live in uncertain times. This country is based on the liberty of its people - if it is this liberty that terrorists wish to destroy, it is rather stupid for the state to do their work for them. That's not 'pink and fluffy' and saying that simply demonstrates a profound contempt for the bases of democratic societies.

And I'm sorry, but from personal and professional experience, I do not share your optimism about impartial investigation, lessons being learned and wrongs being righted.

Indeed, I believe that governments can be very good at utilising 'the power of nightmares' to force through all sorts of measures to curtail the very liberty they say they are trying to protect - by taking it away from us - but it's for our own good as there's those nasty commies/terrorists/*insert ethnicity, religion, country of choice are out to kill us, maim us, rape our kids and our women, kill our men and boys, poison us, nuke us...

There is *always* a threat of some kind. Of course that needs to be countered and met and not neglected but it's soooo much easier on the authorities when the population it is seeking to defend the freedoms of from the nasty guys & gels has necessary curtailments of freedom by the good guys. Trust us, we're the good guys... Truly, the good guys end up doing the work of the bad guys for them. Which is no way to be going on.

 

[Twiggy]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, we live in uncertain times

The police are doing a difficult job, lets support their best efforts, not get all pink and fluffy about the constant threat of terrorism.

For a moment step back, right now we've got posters telling us that if someone has more than one phone they might be a terrorist, and we should call the police on them, ignoring the legitimate uses of multiple phones.
eg, work and private, or cheaper phonecalls to partner, cheating on the husband/wife, ect.

There is always some threat, someone wanting to make their cause heard violently.
The more you clamp down, the more you feed the anger and resentment, the more people sympathise with the violent extremists. ect.

I'd rather risk being blown up, than have my personal freedoms squashed and walked all over constantly. Because after a bomb life goes on, people recover and things eventually go back to normal.
Under a police state life is never normal.

 

[classic33]

One of the problems that I have encountered is that some police officers involved in 'sensitive' duties either cover or remove their numbers making it impossible to identify them with any certainty. I saw this regularly when I was involved in eco-activism.

Of course, you could use the Data Protection Act 1998 to obtain CCTV footage from any cameras in the area. This would meaning going back to the area and noting down the numbers given on the legal notices which will be up somewhere. However this behaviour would no doubt once again make you liable to arrest under Section 58!

Assuming he had their numbers was said because at the time I think other things may have been more important to him then. Like someone with a gun pointed in your direction.
All names & numbers will be on the arrest report. The only thing that they may be able to change after the fact is what was written in their pocketbooks, which is why I said get copies.
The force are obliged to keep a record of everyofficer involved, from the time of the arrest upto his release.
Records will also show who the senior officer on duty at the time was. This for directing the complaint to.

 

[Blue]

I think some of you people need to get real.

I lived in NI throughout the troubles and I can assure you that I would not have dreamed of striking up the kind of conversation that the OP did. FFS, asking an armed security guard in that location about his movements. The OP has the cheek to call the police officer 'shoot for brains'. Talk about people in glass houses!

As a citizen of the UK, I'm glad that people are checked in the street.

In NI we were ALL searched every time we entered some areas - when a terrorist threat is real, as it is, such things become necessary. I think the people who complain just like to hear themselves talk as their mouthings contribute nothing to the safety of their fellow citizens. You people in England haven't a clue about what a real security clampdown is like. You should think yourselves lucky instead of bleating on about what would have been minimal in NI for over 30 years.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

This is just an excuse for racist bullying.

That's exactly the impression I got from the account. Nasty little casual racists given a gun and an excuse for being vicious thugs.