My arrest story

[Cycling Naturalist]

I see your point,but it could also just be stating facts.When i was driving buses we were told to be wary of packages (bombs)and suspicious activity,i always got a worried feeling when an asian got on with a backpack,and im not racist,but that was the general description to possibly watch out for.Now would you say im a nasty racist because of it?

There is a huge difference between being sensible about watching out for threats and treating people badly. The police know that they check out innumerable suspicious circumstances that amount to nothing, and most of the time they do it in a professional and courteous way. Psychoman's treatment was redolent of thuggery and intimidation.

 

[col]

There is a huge difference between being sensible about watching out for threats and treating people badly. The police know that they check out innumerable suspicious circumstances that amount to nothing, and most of the time they do it in a professional and courteous way. Psychoman's treatment was redolent of thuggery and intimidation.

I totally agree with you about the treatment,but i dissagree it was racially motivated,i think these type treat everyone in an atrocious way.

 

[Blue]

The officer presumably approached him with the intention of performing a stop and search, I very much doubt that the conversation caused any change in intention..

To quote the OP:-

"When I was walking through Horse Guards parade, an armed police officer wondered upto me (Well, he could have just been patrolling, who knows?), so I just start speaking to him"

I think you presume too much.

Put it this way. My wife and I were in Paris in May and we went to the tower at midnight on the first night. As we walked under the tower an armed security patrol walked in our direction and I thought they were approaching us. Despite my thoughts I said nothing - and the patrol walked on by within a mm of us. That is a true event with a start that is identical but a quite different ending. Had I been asked for id I would have produced it without either batting an eyelid or asking any questions whatsoever and I'm sure the ending would still have been the same - I would have been allowed to go on about my business.

When faced with an armed security officer I let them initiate the talking. I would only speak to answer questions. I think the officer was doing his duty. I think the execution of that duty seems a bit heavy handed, however, we only have one side of the story.

 

[Blue]

You see, to me, the quote

"I ask him how long does he have to stand around in this heat(*), he says a few hours yet, I ask him cant you hide in the shade(*)".

Shows nothing more than a bit of general concern for the wellbeing someone out in the heat... I might have phrased it as "It's a pity you can't have a bit of shade in this heat" but it's essentially the same basic concern for a fellow being rather than a terrorist threat. If that's taken as a terrorist threat, then the heat really has got to the brain to cause paranoia!

What, you think a terrorist would make his/her intentions clear do you?

The guy asked a question that could be read two ways and the officer would, truly, have been "shoot for brains" if he had assumed innocent intent and got it wrong. I don't think the OP has any right to call anyone else "shoot for brains"

 

[Aperitif]

What, you think a terrorist would make his/her intentions clear do you?

The guy asked a question that could be read two ways and the officer would, truly, have been "shoot for brains" if he had assumed innocent intent and got it wrong. I don't think the OP has any right to call anyone else "shoot for brains"

If that's your reasoning blue then I don't think 'our' suspect would be stupid enough to be toting a mobile full of compromising pictures - it seems just a bit of a giveaway don't you think. Presumably it's not a complex game of 'double bluff' being played out here?

 

[col]

To quote the OP:-

"When I was walking through Horse Guards parade, an armed police officer wondered upto me (Well, he could have just been patrolling, who knows?), so I just start speaking to him"

I think you presume too much.

Put it this way. My wife and I were in Paris in May and we went to the tower at midnight on the first night. As we walked under the tower an armed security patrol walked in our direction and I thought they were approaching us. Despite my thoughts I said nothing - and the patrol walked on by within a mm of us. That is a true event with a start that is identical but a quite different ending. Had I been asked for id I would have produced it without either batting an eyelid or asking any questions whatsoever and I'm sure the ending would still have been the same - I would have been allowed to go on about my business.

When faced with an armed security officer I let them initiate the talking. I would only speak to answer questions. I think the officer was doing his duty. I think the execution of that duty seems a bit heavy handed, however, we only have one side of the story.

I have no reason to doubt what he is saying,unless proven otherwise,and can you really see the police in question admitting to talking and treating someone like that ?The only way he can go is to write to the chief constable.Also they seemed to have played or tried to play on ignorance,by telling him he has to get rid of his stuff,when he didnt need to really,as the last seemingly decent policeman pointed out.If he is telling the truth,and like i said, i have no reason to think he isnt,then this needs bringing out into the open,and the relevant police man or men challenged about it,im going to assume that the same culprits may have acted in this way before,and it would at least bring their unsuitability in the job to the attention of those in charge.

 

[Baggy]

When faced with an armed security officer I let them initiate the talking. I would only speak to answer questions. I think the officer was doing his duty. I think the execution of that duty seems a bit heavy handed, however, we only have one side of the story.

But as you've said, you grew up in NI so your approach to an armed police officer might be different to anyone else on here. Different people react in different ways, different police officers react in different ways.

Tim Bennet's right:
1. Were there reasonable grounds for a stop and search and then the follow up inquiries?
2. Was this done in a way we should expect from our Police?

I don't know the answer to 1. as I don't know what the current reasonable grounds are, but initiating a conversation probably isn't on the list.

 

[CopperBrompton]

If an armed police officer really made the comment you quote about shooting asian people, I would strongly urge you to make a formal complaint: that officer needs to be removed from armed duties immediately.

As for the rest of it, I have to say I can see why you were questioned. Imagine a terrorist detonating a bomb in their backpack and then the following questions being put to the police officer:

"So, PC 123, the suspect questioned you about your movements; you saw photos on his phone of realistic-looking firearms; you saw photos on his phone of him dressed in combat gear; and you chose to simply bid him a good day and let him walk away without questioning ... ?"

Ben

 

[col]

It's very difficult to challenge. I think stop and search used to be done on quotas - i.e you had to search a number of people in proportion to the ethnic breakdown of the population, or if there was reasonable suspicion. The police do a very difficult job and there are some absolute rock hard ba*tards who have no interpersonal skills and won't care if they're rapped over the knuckles.

I agree,It would be difficult to challenge the policeman,but at least he knows he has been underlined and might think about what he is doing wrong to cause the question,and if he happens to be a "rock hard"one who doesnt care about being questioned about his behaviour,then he should be removed from armed duty,he obviously isnt of the quality needed.

 

[Baggy]

Bugger! Sorry, I deleted my earlier post instead of editing!

Col, I agree - and agree with Ben as well.

Assuming it can be proven there *was* reasonable suspicion to carry out the stop and search, then the officer was correct to follow up the photos, but his comments are absolutely out of line and threatening.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

Assuming it can be proven there *was* reasonable suspicion to carry out the stop and search, then the officer was correct to follow up the photos, but his comments are absolutely out of line and threatening.

I quite agree, the photos should have been followed up. It's the treatment that I think was totally unacceptable.

 

[yenrod]

I think some of you people need to get real.

I lived in NI throughout the troubles and I can assure you that I would not have dreamed of striking up the kind of conversation that the OP did. FFS, asking an armed security guard in that location about his movements. The OP has the cheek to call the police officer 'shoot for brains'. Talk about people in glass houses!

As a citizen of the UK, I'm glad that people are checked in the street.

In NI we were ALL searched every time we entered some areas - when a terrorist threat is real, as it is, such things become necessary. I think the people who complain just like to hear themselves talk as their mouthings contribute nothing to the safety of their fellow citizens. You people in England haven't a clue about what a real security clampdown is like. You should think yourselves lucky instead of bleating on about what would have been minimal in NI for over 30 years.

Blue I share your thoughts.

Theirs, or used to be, a degree of naivety in the Southern British psyche.

No probs. in middle englund - everyones by and large the same live and let live.

Then the IRA decided to visit London: i noticed once, when I was in a toilet in a pub (just popped into use it) central london about 2003..and noticed something wrote on the wall and it just spoke a 'cultural seperance' ie the difference between London/Southern England & an area very very removed and culturally different from the middle england naivety.

A real, just and literal culture whereby affluence is not the norm.

Suits are not the norm.

Business and the train in are not the norm.

- Like you say Blue, who would talk to an armed officer. Maybe if your totaly out your brain drunk but even then i'd still think many times..such is the culture I originate from.

Why pzycoman did you talk to the armed officer even though you are familiar with guns due to your hobby

Didnt it go through your mind that:

Man with gun = there to stop terrorists !

Man with gun = there to stop terrorists !

Man with gun = there to stop terrorists !

Why pzycoman !...no one has asked yet.

 

[LLB]

I'm Asian and Muslim - most of you know that already, probably. As I was reading through pzycoman's blog I thought to myself 'Are you Asian? Are you muslim?'...saw your photo, pzycoman - you look Arab, are you?

There's a lot of horror stories I've personally heard from people I know. Mate of mine (muslim/asian) was arrested by the poleeece as he happened to have the same surname as someone on some gov't 'wanted' list. His credit cards were cancelled, bank account frozen, even PayPal asked him for his friggin passport before they would open an account for him. This was a couple of years ago and he's still trying to get his life/family back to normal.

my wife is absolutely convinced our phone calls are being tapped (stating some type of 'static' in the background), but i'm sceptical about it.

Doesn't matter how good an egg you are, you still come under suspicion on account of being brown/muslim, which is a sad reflection on the society we live in and the powers that the Authorities have.

i honestly don't know what i'd do if i was in your situation, pzycoman. With my placid nature I'd probably try and forget about it and not pursue it. It might be asking for more trouble. That said, you should do what you feel is right.

I have to feel for you guys and pzycoman's story is fairly disturbing but I'm not 100% surprised by the actions of the plod involved (He may have been doing his job, but I don't at all condone the way he conducted himself which IMO falls well below a minimum standard).
The reality is though that prior to 2001, Muslims didn't have any problems like this in the UK (or other western countries), and the problems which you now face here with the suspicion and derision are caused because the fanatical extremists who are looking to cause trouble chose to use you religion as justification for their actions, and the islamic community was slow in distancing itself from them, and also since 2001 many westernised muslims have become much closer to their roots in clothing/facial hair etc and this has just increased division and misunderstanding between the cultures. I also think that the media has shown a fair amount of irresponsibility over the years playing to peoples emotions. I think because of this apparent closing of ranks around the fanatics (an general lack of understanding by the white british people as a whole), suspicion of muslims are going to be a cross which will have to be born for anyone who appears to be one as you all end up being tarred with the same brush.

I'd not engage in anything more that a 'good day' to a plod with a sub machine gun (saw loads of them at Gatwick last month), and not want to draw any more attention than necessary with the authorities if I looked like a muslim/arab in facial appearance or clothing.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Being naive and being nice is not a crime. The whole thing about this is that some of you are trying to dissect entirely innocent behaviour in the light of the fact that he was arrested. You know that saying 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' that the more gung-ho like to quote? Well, he had nothing at all to hide, but it would seem, plenty to fear. There is no reason why we should have to start altering our everyday, perfectly legal and proper, behaviour because someone might interpret it the wrong way. That would be the kind of 'internalised control' that is more than a couple of steps further down the road to totalitarianism than my idea of a democratic society with accountable government...

 

[tdr1nka]

Here we degenerate from the police being Public servants who should view and treat each individual with respect, to this hyped, up paranoid
'Guilty, until proven innocent' mentality we now see which imbues some in the ranks with the attitude of feckless bullys.

I grew up in London during the IRA days and the politics of fear was never this maniplulated.
I've lived in London in the 80's & 90's and I've had black friends humiliated by the police in their targeted stop and search.
Now this has been extended to include anyone who looks asian or even close.

IMO The UK is a worse and non the safer for these laws and measures.
This whole race generalisation only leads to closed and uncooperative communities.
With legislation changing as fast as it does, who's to say how long it will be before they stop and search everyone equally and with the same vigor?