Motorsports Thread

[figbat]

This idea that Mercedes had the same option as Red Bull doesn’t fly for me. Yes, they did, but they have to think and react quickly based on data in hand, data which includes the consequences of various scenarios based on the sporting regulations. Mercedes wanted to maintain the lead because if they hadn’t then yes, they would have had fresh tyres but they would be behind Max, who had shown that he is not willing to be overtaken cleanly and if anything happened that put them both out then Max wins it. Hold the high ground. Plus they knew that there wasn’t time to unlap all the cars and restart the race, so they win. Or they could have restarted without unlapping which would have given a good spectacle of Max trying to chase down Lewis. Both of these options are ‘legal’ and favour Mercedes, hence a good reason to stay out.

As I said before, they failed to account for the Masi factor whereby he decided that he can make up or ignore regulations as he sees fit.

 

[FishFright]

This idea that Mercedes had the same option as Red Bull doesn’t fly for me. Yes, they did, but they have to think and react quickly based on data in hand, data which includes the consequences of various scenarios based on the sporting regulations. Mercedes wanted to maintain the lead because if they hadn’t then yes, they would have had fresh tyres but they would be behind Max, who had shown that he is not willing to be overtaken cleanly and if anything happened that put them both out then Max wins it. Hold the high ground. Plus they knew that there wasn’t time to unlap all the cars and restart the race, so they win. Or they could have restarted without unlapping which would have given a good spectacle of Max trying to chase down Lewis. Both of these options are ‘legal’ and favour Mercedes, hence a good reason to stay out.

As I said before, they failed to account for the Masi factor whereby he decided that he can make up or ignore regulations as he sees fit.

Mercedes went for track position over grip and didn't pay off. RB did the opposite of what ever Merc did because to copy them would always leave them in second. Pretty basic stuff.

As for Masi , he needs to go because of his performance all season not just at the last 2 races,

 

[classic33]

Where was the Course steward in all this decision making?
Heard him referred to a number of times, but only the Race Director is being held to blame. Maybe it's because he wasn't heard over the radio.

Less than two months ago, Timo Glock, speaking to Felipe Massa for the first time about the 2008 Brazilian GP in which he "slowed down" to allow Hamilton to pass, revealed that he still gets accused of doing it deliberately. Gifting Hamilton the position, and the title that year. Massa was clearly taken back by this news.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Mercedes went for track position over grip and didn't pay off. RB did the opposite of what ever Merc did because to copy them would always leave them in second. Pretty basic stuff.

As for Masi , he needs to go because of his performance all season not just at the last 2 races,

Again, Peter Windsor, who has forgotten more than I've ever known about F1 suggests he's actually the right man for the job, but he's been put in an impossible position, without the necessary resources to allow him to do it successfully.

 

[Illaveago]

I think a lot of emotion has been stirred up over the season . Christian Horner started off by gloating that they had a better car for the season. Toto Wolf was very calm despite their car not performing too well against their rivals car . Due to rule changes Mercedes found it difficult to get their car sorted out .
Spa was a complete fiasco! Hours of waiting and then finally a couple of laps under the safety car to call it s race .
Brazil was a shambles. Red Bull were surprised by the speed of the Mercedes with the new engine and protested the rear wing saying that it flexed too much and was therefore giving Mercedes a speed advantage . Mercedes had protested Red Bulls wing earlier in the year as it was flexing at speed . I suppose it was payback time . Lewis's wing was found to be out by 0.2 mm on one side and so was penalised to start at the back of the grid .
It was during the race that Masi's authority came into question . Allowing Max to go way off the track on one corner taking Lewis with him. He later started weaving to prevent Lewis from overtaking. He wasn't punished for any of that . In the following race Max was given a 10 second penalty for braking hard and causing an accident but the penalty had no bearing on the result .
In the last race Max had an advantage in the points standing by having won more race than Lewis . If they both collided and were taken out Max stood to win . Masi had ruled that such an action would be penalised. By what ? A time penalty ? At the time of the last yellow flag teams were operating under the present rules . They didn't know that Masi was going to change the rules at a whim ! Red Bull had nothing to lose doing a pit stop . Mercedes had track position and we're going by the until then existing rules and didn't know that the race director was going to change them . By letting just the 5 cars between the leaders through also prevented other cars from taking advantage and racing for position . If anything other teams should be questioning the result !

 

[derrick]

I don't think it is a victory to be proud of.

 

[FishFright]

Again, Peter Windsor, who has forgotten more than I've ever known about F1 suggests he's actually the right man for the job, but he's been put in an impossible position, without the necessary resources to allow him to do it successfully.

As race director his job is to make sure the race is run safely and to the rules , he's not been doing that.

As for Peter Windsor, I used to love his columns but he's been useless for years. This makes me sad.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

As race director his job is to make sure the race is run safely and to the rules , he's not been doing that.

As for Peter Windsor, I used to love his columns but he's been useless for years. This makes me sad.

Agree with the first, disagree with the second 😊

 

[gbb]

Can't be bothered with all the nit-picking over this clause and that paragraph sub-section.

Mercedes had the same opportunities to put fresh tyres on that Red Bull had. The argument that this would have put them behind RB holds no water as this would have given them exactly the advantage Verstappen ended up with - fresh rubber and a faster car.

To those whining about Hamilton's lead being wiped out by the safety car - erm - that's what happens with safety cars, sometimes multiple times in one race. All this blithering nonsense about teams being 3-0 up etc etc just shows incredible ignorance.

Mercedes gambled and lost. Red Bull gambled and won. That's sport.

Bob on, the whole idea is to be first past the post, anything that happens between the start and the finish that is within the rules, even if you dont like them, is fair game.
Ultimately, Verstappen won, i think that in itself is better for an ailing sport than anything the clowns running it could ever be.
Liverpool in the 70s, got sick of them winning everything.
Manchester United, ditto.
Schumacher, ditto.
Hamilton, ditto.
Theres no interest (for me) if one person or team dominates so utterly and completely...and thats coming from someone who would formerly always support the home player, driver, team.

 

[Beebo]

I don't think it is a victory to be proud of.

Max seems to disagree.
Seeing Horner gloating whilst knowing it was a very lucky break doesn’t look great.

 

[Reynard]

Where was the Course steward in all this decision making?
Heard him referred to a number of times, but only the Race Director is being held to blame. Maybe it's because he wasn't heard over the radio.

Less than two months ago, Timo Glock, speaking to Felipe Massa for the first time about the 2008 Brazilian GP in which he "slowed down" to allow Hamilton to pass, revealed that he still gets accused of doing it deliberately. Gifting Hamilton the position, and the title that year. Massa was clearly taken back by this news.

From what I gather, Masi overruled the Clerk of the Course.

Which is unusual from what I know of how (smaller) race meetings are run. Admittedly I'm no expert on this, but as far as I am aware, usually, the buck stops with the Clerk of the Course, with he or she being the senior Judge of Fact on site.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

The C of the C is responsible for the operation of the circuit, and primarily for liaison between the Race Director and Marshals.

The RD is definitely responsible for the operation of the Safety Car, liaising with the COftheC regarding this, as it relates to track clearance, Marshal safety etc.

There's also the Official Starter (something Charlie used to do, but became a separate role after his death)

And so on.... Here's a good summary:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f...-they-do-how-are-they-chosen-6500572/6500572/

 

[classic33]

I think a lot of emotion has been stirred up over the season . Christian Horner started off by gloating that they had a better car for the season. Toto Wolf was very calm despite their car not performing too well against their rivals car . Due to rule changes Mercedes found it difficult to get their car sorted out .
Spa was a complete fiasco! Hours of waiting and then finally a couple of laps under the safety car to call it s race .
Brazil was a shambles. Red Bull were surprised by the speed of the Mercedes with the new engine and protested the rear wing saying that it flexed too much and was therefore giving Mercedes a speed advantage . Mercedes had protested Red Bulls wing earlier in the year as it was flexing at speed . I suppose it was payback time . Lewis's wing was found to be out by 0.2 mm on one side and so was penalised to start at the back of the grid .
It was during the race that Masi's authority came into question . Allowing Max to go way off the track on one corner taking Lewis with him. He later started weaving to prevent Lewis from overtaking. He wasn't punished for any of that . In the following race Max was given a 10 second penalty for braking hard and causing an accident but the penalty had no bearing on the result .
In the last race Max had an advantage in the points standing by having won more race than Lewis . If they both collided and were taken out Max stood to win . Masi had ruled that such an action would be penalised. By what ? A time penalty ? At the time of the last yellow flag teams were operating under the present rules . They didn't know that Masi was going to change the rules at a whim ! Red Bull had nothing to lose doing a pit stop . Mercedes had track position and we're going by the until then existing rules and didn't know that the race director was going to change them . By letting just the 5 cars between the leaders through also prevented other cars from taking advantage and racing for position . If anything other teams should be questioning the result !

Didn't Wolff say that they were concentrating on next years cars, before the start of the season.
All teams agreed to the rules, on what was legal on their cars, long before the season started
The wing remains impounded, Mercedes not wanting it back. It failed to meet the regulations, in that it opened too far under DRS, tough.
Shumacher/Ferrari and barge boards anyone? 0.7mm too big.

Verstappen also fined for touching another car in parc fermé.

Or, if neither finished/finished in the top ten.

 

[Reynard]

Shumacher/Ferrari and barge boards anyone? 0.7mm too big.

It was actually 5mm

I remember the FIA then ruled that barge boards then had to be within 5mm of the specified size, letting Ferrari clean off the hook. That was in 1999, and if Ferrari had been thrown out, Frentzen in the Jordan would have been World Champion that year instead of Mika Hakkinen.

It was then that the joke that FIA stood for Ferrari International Assistance got going...

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

The wags are hard at it