Motorsports Thread

[Drago]

At the moment there is no case to drop. They haven't yet lodged a formal appeal about the Stewards decision. I suspect Toto fell off his bike again on his way to post the letter.

 

[Beebo]

Apparently Lewis has asked Mercedes to drop the case. Not sure how true this is.

It wouldn’t surprise me.
He comes out of this looking good. No way does he want to win in the courts.
Verstappen even said he would have been more angry if it was the other way round.

 

[Illaveago]

I used to have respect for Christian Horner, Adrian Newey, David Coulthard , and Mark Webber . Not any more ! To say that Red Bull had won the race according to the official verdict when Lewis Hamilton had led for most of the race and then to have it snatched away in such a manner to me seems more like a form of plagerism, they have taken somebody else's work and called it their own !

 

[FishFright]

I used to have respect for Christian Horner, Adrian Newey, David Coulthard , and Mark Webber . Not any more ! To say that Red Bull had won the race according to the official verdict when Lewis Hamilton had led for most of the race and then to have it snatched away in such a manner to me seems more like a form of plagerism, they have taken somebody else's work and called it their own !

Strange, I never saw their names on the list of stewards this weekend.

 

[classic33]

I used to have respect for Christian Horner, Adrian Newey, David Coulthard , and Mark Webber . Not any more ! To say that Red Bull had won the race according to the official verdict when Lewis Hamilton had led for most of the race and then to have it snatched away in such a manner to me seems more like a form of plagerism, they have taken somebody else's work and called it their own !

Russell was robbed of his first GP win by the very team he was driving for last year, Mercedes. With a late pit stop, called by them.

Just my opinion. But to have someone jump in the car and do better than the driver he replaced, winning at the first time of asking/trying couldn't be allowed.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Peter Windsor giving a very lucid analysis after the dust has started to settle:


View: https://youtu.be/j4j-HOtNDMw

 

[PaulSB]

Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 will be talking about this later on, Should be interesting 🤔

WTF does he know.

JV believes he's an expert on everything yet in fact knows little about anything. Appalling journalism.

I have only a passing interest in F1 but sat down to watch the final ten laps. At the end I didn't properly understand what had happened and caught various bits on the BBC news by people speaking what may as well have been double Dutch. I read this thread only to feel even more confused.

Eddie Jordan on Monday's BBC Breakfast was clear and succinct and full marks to him. The only person I've heard discuss the subject in a comprehensible manner.

Overall I've been left with the impression the sport has become a complete joke with a minefield of rules which overrule each other. I'll never be a big fan and now know it truly is just a ridiculous circus.

That's a shame for F1 and probably the impression given to millions and one which will be very difficult to shake off.

I still don't understand what "unlapped" means? Do those drivers drive round the track to catch up to the back of the field before racing starts again?

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

Can't be bothered with all the nit-picking over this clause and that paragraph sub-section.

Mercedes had the same opportunities to put fresh tyres on that Red Bull had. The argument that this would have put them behind RB holds no water as this would have given them exactly the advantage Verstappen ended up with - fresh rubber and a faster car.

To those whining about Hamilton's lead being wiped out by the safety car - erm - that's what happens with safety cars, sometimes multiple times in one race. All this blithering nonsense about teams being 3-0 up etc etc just shows incredible ignorance.

Mercedes gambled and lost. Red Bull gambled and won. That's sport.

 

[Drago]

Im pretty much with Joey. Bottom line is Mercedes had the same chance as everyone else to do their boots and chose not do so. It's only when Mercedes make a bad call that they suddenly start paying great attention to everything else.

Mercedes have been told it can't go to a panel of arbtitration, which leaves only the FIA themselves and I don't think that dog will bark.

But whatever Mercedes do or don't do Max is champion. There is no rule that allows the stewards to unwind the results by one lap just to suit a team, and the stewards have already pointed out that would be short of full race distance so would not a valid race.

There's a miniscule outside chance the result could be decalred void - doubtful, as there would be a massive complaint from teams that lost points and therefore money - but Max would still be champion anyway.

Max himself did nothing wrong at that point, so cannot receive a time penalty or points deduction.

So whichever way the cards fall Max remains champion.

As there is no potential result within the rules that would gift Hamilton the crown, as time goes by Mercedes are simply looking more and more like sore losers. I can't say i'd be pleased either, but theyre in the sport for the publicity it brings the firm so why continue a course of action that cheapens that reputation by associstion and which will never bring a result that would make them happy?

I don't blame Masi too much. The rules are over complex, badly written, and in the case of 48.13 somewhat contradictory. If nothing else comes of this the sporting code needs seriously sorting out. I would also like to see the race director totally incommunicado from the teams during a race, except during an emergency. These team principals whining and trying to influence the race director should face serious sanction for such behaviour.

 

[Illaveago]

Im pretty much with Joey. Bottom line is Mercedes had the same chance as everyone else to do their boots and chose not do so. It's only when Mercedes make a bad call that they suddenly start paying great attention to everything else.

Mercedes have been told it can't go to a panel of arbtitration, which leaves only the FIA themselves and I don't think that dog will bark.

But whatever Mercedes do or don't do Max is champion. There is no rule that allows the stewards to unwind the results by one lap just to suit a team, and the stewards have already pointed out that would be short of full race distance so would not a valid race.

There's a miniscule outside chance the result could be decalred void - doubtful, as there would be a massive complaint from teams that lost points and therefore money - but Max would still be champion anyway.

Max himself did nothing wrong at that point, so cannot receive a time penalty or points deduction.

So whichever way the cards fall Max remains champion.

As there is no potential result within the rules that would gift Hamilton the crown, as time goes by Mercedes are simply looking more and more like sore losers. I can't say i'd be pleased either, but theyre in the sport for the publicity it brings the firm so why continue a course of action that cheapens that reputation by associstion and which will never bring a result that would make them happy?

I don't blame Masi too much. The rules are over complex, badly written, and in the case of 48.13 somewhat contradictory. If nothing else comes of this the sporting code needs seriously sorting out. I would also like to see the race director totally incommunicado from the teams during a race, except during an emergency. These team principals whining and trying to influence the race director should face serious sanction for such behaviour.

I agree with some of the points you have made, however Max was 12 seconds behind Lewis and so had time to react to whatever he did . He had lost the race at that point so whatever he did didn't have much impact on the outcome . It was a gamble which paid off ! Lewis however was in the lead and needed information as to what was going on, which was relayed to him by his team . The fact that Masi changed his mind changed the whole race outcome . It was a bad decision! Plus he modified the rules to concoct a result which has angered a lot of people and made the sport look staged, the FIA farcical and the race director incompetent!
The winner was announced before scrutineering had examined the cars so the result could have changed .
Mercedes may decide not to pursue the matter as they do not like bad publicity but something needs to be done to the organisation and should be done publicly so that people can see that action is being taken .

 

[Salad Dodger]

I have been a motorsports fan all my life, but I have become increasingly disillusioned F1 in recent years, and since the Spa debacle I have lost all respect for it.
I still follow rallying via the media, although that, too, has changed in recent years to replace endurance with outright sprint speed.
For the best racing, I favour motorbikes.

 

[Alex321]

I still don't understand what "unlapped" means? Do those drivers drive round the track to catch up to the back of the field before racing starts again?

Yes, that is exactly what it means - normally.

But in this case, Masi did not wait until they caught up before restarting racing. If he had, then reaching would not have restarted, as the safety car would have been out for one more lap.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Can't be bothered with all the nit-picking over this clause and that paragraph sub-section.

Mercedes had the same opportunities to put fresh tyres on that Red Bull had. The argument that this would have put them behind RB holds no water as this would have given them exactly the advantage Verstappen ended up with - fresh rubber and a faster car.

To those whining about Hamilton's lead being wiped out by the safety car - erm - that's what happens with safety cars, sometimes multiple times in one race. All this blithering nonsense about teams being 3-0 up etc etc just shows incredible ignorance.

Mercedes gambled and lost. Red Bull gambled and won. That's sport.

The rules* weren't followed - that's the issue.

Characterising people expressing a view as 'whining' is unhelpful at best.

The Peter Windsor link above is c15 mins and very lucid on the issues.

*On which Teams make decisions

 

[FishFright]

Im pretty much with Joey. Bottom line is Mercedes had the same chance as everyone else to do their boots and chose not do so. It's only when Mercedes make a bad call that they suddenly start paying great attention to everything else.

Mercedes have been told it can't go to a panel of arbtitration, which leaves only the FIA themselves and I don't think that dog will bark.

But whatever Mercedes do or don't do Max is champion. There is no rule that allows the stewards to unwind the results by one lap just to suit a team, and the stewards have already pointed out that would be short of full race distance so would not a valid race.

There's a miniscule outside chance the result could be decalred void - doubtful, as there would be a massive complaint from teams that lost points and therefore money - but Max would still be champion anyway.

Max himself did nothing wrong at that point, so cannot receive a time penalty or points deduction.

So whichever way the cards fall Max remains champion.

As there is no potential result within the rules that would gift Hamilton the crown, as time goes by Mercedes are simply looking more and more like sore losers. I can't say i'd be pleased either, but theyre in the sport for the publicity it brings the firm so why continue a course of action that cheapens that reputation by associstion and which will never bring a result that would make them happy?

I don't blame Masi too much. The rules are over complex, badly written, and in the case of 48.13 somewhat contradictory. If nothing else comes of this the sporting code needs seriously sorting out. I would also like to see the race director totally incommunicado from the teams during a race, except during an emergency. These team principals whining and trying to influence the race director should face serious sanction for such behaviour.

I agree with much of you said but do you have a link for the Mercedes not being able to go to arbitration ? The only one I can find is from the Fail so ...

 

[jowwy]

Im pretty much with Joey. Bottom line is Mercedes had the same chance as everyone else to do their boots and chose not do so. It's only when Mercedes make a bad call that they suddenly start paying great attention to everything else.

Mercedes have been told it can't go to a panel of arbtitration, which leaves only the FIA themselves and I don't think that dog will bark.

But whatever Mercedes do or don't do Max is champion. There is no rule that allows the stewards to unwind the results by one lap just to suit a team, and the stewards have already pointed out that would be short of full race distance so would not a valid race.

There's a miniscule outside chance the result could be decalred void - doubtful, as there would be a massive complaint from teams that lost points and therefore money - but Max would still be champion anyway.

Max himself did nothing wrong at that point, so cannot receive a time penalty or points deduction.

So whichever way the cards fall Max remains champion.

As there is no potential result within the rules that would gift Hamilton the crown, as time goes by Mercedes are simply looking more and more like sore losers. I can't say i'd be pleased either, but theyre in the sport for the publicity it brings the firm so why continue a course of action that cheapens that reputation by associstion and which will never bring a result that would make them happy?

I don't blame Masi too much. The rules are over complex, badly written, and in the case of 48.13 somewhat contradictory. If nothing else comes of this the sporting code needs seriously sorting out. I would also like to see the race director totally incommunicado from the teams during a race, except during an emergency. These team principals whining and trying to influence the race director should face serious sanction for such behaviour.

yet there was plenty of manipulation of the rules to gift Max the Crown........hmmmmm