Motorsports Thread

[Illaveago]

I think that George Russell had the right to complain to his team about their race strategy. I think it is where Mercedes are lacking and not reacting to changing circumstances quick enough .

 

[Drago]

He's probably right to complain, but he should do it after the race. If you have mental bandwidth spare with with which to vent while driving then you ain't trying hard enough.

Any other team would have dispensed with team principal for a dreadful judgement call and persisting with an awful design, even going as far to successfully lobby for a ride height rule change to desperately try and make the car competitive by reigning in the opposition, and then a series of poor strategic in-race decisions.

Unfortunately this one is the teams biggest shareholder so it's everyone else's fault as he calls in the media for the team to "raise its game" as he did yesterday.

 

[icowden]

Any other team would have dispensed with team principal for a dreadful judgement call and persisting with an awful design, even going as far to successfully lobby for a ride height rule change to desperately try and make the car competitive by reigning in the opposition, and then a series of poor strategic in-race decisions.

I'm not convinced. A lot of money was spent on that design. They needed to try and make it work. Maybe they did take a bit longer than they should to ditch it but they also had to balance that with how the rest of the car works. Hopefully next years car will be competitive. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it looks exactly like the Red Bull.

For me the interesting part of the race is that RB made an excellent strategy call with Perez who was able to zoom through the pack to the front, but there is still that difference between Perez and Verstappen whereby he was able to retake the lead without too much difficulty. Some of that may be that the car is focused on Max's driving style rather than Perez but it also shows the difference between a #1 driver and a #2 driver. Whether you like Max or not its unarguable that he is able to make the RB go much, much faster than Perez can, most of the time. But then we saw that previously with Hamilton and Bottas.

 

[Drago]

Word is Ricciardo's injury was a complex fracture. Now considered highly unlikely to return for Singapore. Liam Lawson confirmed as ongoing replacement until Ricciardo is fit to return.

 

[icowden]

Well I enjoyed Monza, some good racing (and bad). I'm already getting that "the season is finished" feeling though.
Predictions:

• Verstappen wins the remaining 8 races without any difficulty
• Perez comes second in the WDC
• Alonso and Hamilton duke it out for 3rd in the final race
• Sainz, Leclerc and Russell duke it out for 5th in the final race.
• Constructors results are as they are now: Red Bull, Merc , Ferrari, Aston (although those two could swap round)

Development is clearly now on next years cars. Hopefully someone can design a car that can challenge Red Bull. The desired effect of closing up the teams seems to have worked in part, but it hasn't stopped one team from massively dominating - and in fact seems to have exacerbated that dominance. The RB isn't so much a better car, as a car in a different race.

 

[Drago]

Lewis Ramilton at it again, this time with Piastri.

Fair play to him, he's fussed and apologised, although the excuses he's trotting out are the same excuses he rubbishes when he's on the receiving end and someone else is apologising.

Nice to see Russell doing OK. I'd like to see him finish the season with more points than Ramilton again.

 

[icowden]

Nice to see Russell doing OK. I'd like to see him finish the season with more points than Ramilton again.

Given he's 47 points behind Hamilton it seems unlikely.

 

[Drago]

I see Hamilton has been yawping off again. This time he reckons his team mates have always been better, more challenging than those of Verstappen.

These words were quick to come back and haunt him when Perez, one of Max's supposedly less capable team mates, out qualified Lewis and thrashed him in the race. Oops.

And Toto - incidentally, Japan's largest toilet bowl manufacturer is called Toto - claims to be unimpressed with Verstappens consecutive wins record, claiming its for Wikipedia and no one reads it.

I think this arrogance comes from them being on the winning streak for so long they have forgotten how to show any humility or class when someone beats them. It's sour grapes, unbecoming of a world champ and a team principal.

 

[icowden]

I see Hamilton has been yawping off again. This time he reckons his team mates have always been better, more challenging than those of Verstappen.

Yes and?

These words were quick to come back and haunt him when Perez, one of Max's supposedly less capable team mates, out qualified Lewis and thrashed him in the race. Oops.

Perez did not thrash Max in the race. Didn't even come close. Hamilton has raced with Alonso (WDC), Button (WDC) Rosberg (WDC) as his team mates. Max has never raced with anyone who appears to be anywhere near (or better than) he is.

And Toto - incidentally, Japan's largest toilet bowl manufacturer is called Toto - claims to be unimpressed with Verstappens consecutive wins record, claiming its for Wikipedia and no one reads it.

I can see his point. It loses it's gloss when the wins are from a driver with machinery that is so far ahead of the other teams that his only competitor is his own team mate who has been selected to do well, but not that well.

I think this arrogance comes from them being on the winning streak for so long they have forgotten how to show any humidity or class when someone beats them. It's sour grapes, unbecoming of a world champ and a team principal.

Nah - just a bit of psychology to annoy Red Bull and Max.

You also missed out that he said:-

However, Wolff did admit that Verstappen's success "shows a great driver in a great car competing at an extremely high level".
In a second answer on Verstappen he added: "By the way, that record, I would think it's a good one, because it's perfection."
And he said that he expected Red Bull to go on to win every race this season, barring an error.

and

But Wolf said: "If a team dominates in the way Max has done with Red Bull, then fair dues. This is a meritocracy.
"As long as you comply with the regulations - technical, sporting and financial - we just need to say, well done. And if it takes a long time [to catch up], then it takes a long time.
"I remember people crying foul when it was us. Entertainment follows sport, not the other way around. You can't be WWE [wrestling] - we don't want to be scripted content."

So a bit more balanced than your reportage might suggest?

 

[FishFright]

I see Hamilton has been yawping off again. This time he reckons his team mates have always been better, more challenging than those of Verstappen.

These words were quick to come back and haunt him when Perez, one of Max's supposedly less capable team mates, out qualified Lewis and thrashed him in the race. Oops.

And Toto - incidentally, Japan's largest toilet bowl manufacturer is called Toto - claims to be unimpressed with Verstappens consecutive wins record, claiming its for Wikipedia and no one reads it.

I think this arrogance comes from them being on the winning streak for so long they have forgotten how to show any humility or class when someone beats them. It's sour grapes, unbecoming of a world champ and a team principal.

Its both sad and amusing to watch Toto fail to adjust to losing again.

 

[Drago]

Toto is missing a couplle of races as he's having surgery. Some wags have suggested he's found a charisma donor.

It's particularly galling in light of Red Bull Spice, who I don't always have much time for, being most complimentary about Hamilton in the media a week or ten days back, describing him as the greatest of all time, etc. Why can't such magnanimity be reciprocated?

Such childish petulance is really quite demeaning. I don't really root for any one team or driver, preferring to enjoy the spectacle as a while, but this has quite put me off ever cheering for Mercedes again.

 

[icowden]

It's particularly galling in light of Red Bull Spice, who I don't always have much time for, being most complimentary about Hamilton in the media a week or ten days back, describing him as the greatest of all time, etc. Why can't such magnanimity be reciprocated?

It was, you just seem to have a word blank on the bit where he said that Max was a great driver in a great car performing at an extremely high level and that if a team dominates with a car as Max is doing then fair dues it's a meritocracy. What was it that you wanted him to say?

 

[Drago]

Whispers, rumours, Massa and 2008.

His legal team seem very confident - and if if they weren't I'm sure they'd pretend to be bullish - they will win this one.

And Ferrari are now quietly supporting them, hardly surprising and it would give them another championship.

Another distraction Toto doesn't need as Mercedes have now assembled a legal team to do their bit.

It's like Corrie, but with shiny chrome office furniture and brown shoes with blue suits.

 

[icowden]

Whispers, rumours, Massa and 2008.
His legal team seem very confident - and if if they weren't I'm sure they'd pretend to be bullish - they will win this one.

Just read this from 20 hours ago, and it seems like a load of nonsense.
https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/f1-lewis-hamilton-felipe-massa-title-2008-b2407089.html

Massa's legal team have sent the FIA and F1 a letter before claim. It's just a letter saying we think you did this, this is what we will settle for or we will take you to court. They demanded a two week response, the FIA told them to do one, so they extended the response time a little (by 2 days as far as I can see). Even if there were a response it would likely be two words, the second of which is "off". The papers are all reporting that he is "expecting" support from Ferrari, not that he actually has any or that Ferrari have said anything at all. The only people saying that they are confident of winning are Massa and his lawyer.

The most he can hope for is cash anyway. They aren't going to rewrite the history books. The court may also rule that they are too late. This was now 15 years ago. If he was that concerned about it, why wait 15 years to take action?

 

[Drago]

I'm pretty sure cash is all Massa wants.

All this talk of championships is just leverage in the pursuit of the filthy lucre. And why not? I probably would for the telephone number sums involved.