Motorsports Thread

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

Drago

Legendary Member
We may know the answer to that very soon. RB seem confident in Ricciardo's skills after his simulator and tyre test performance, so if he doesn't at least better Tsunoda then there could be deep seated team or car problems.

Some analysts reckon the way the AT behaves on initial turn-in isn't that different to last year's McLaren and that Ricciardo might well struggle again.

Alternatively, its doubtful the pundits have driven either car, never mind both, so it's equally likely they're pithing in the breeze.

The only thing we can say with any certainty is that we we'll see in due course.
 
D

Deleted member 1258

Guest
We may know the answer to that very soon. RB seem confident in Ricciardo's skills after his simulator and tyre test performance, so if he doesn't at least better Tsunoda then there could be deep seated team or car problems.

Some analysts reckon the way the AT behaves on initial turn-in isn't that different to last year's McLaren and that Ricciardo might well struggle again.

Alternatively, its doubtful the pundits have driven either car, never mind both, so it's equally likely they're pithing in the breeze.

The only thing we can say with any certainty is that we we'll see in due course.

I was reading somewhere that the car had rear stability problems on corner entry, something they were trying to fix.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
I was reading somewhere that the car had rear stability problems on corner entry, something they were trying to fix.
Suppose it depends how it's based on the RB & the way that Max likes a lively car, he likes to throw it into the corner then work it out once there, others like it planted before turn in. How much IP are they allowed to share?
 
D

Deleted member 1258

Guest
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
The article is here, and it doesn't sound promising for Ricardo, he likes a car thats planted on corner entry.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...ess-could-be-bad-news-for-ricciardo/10495367/
But as aforementioned, none of the pundits have driven either car, never mind both, so it is nothing more than mildly informed speculation. We won't really know until he's done it a few times.
But did he not suffer at McLaren the same issue that he had at RB, they were building the car around the other driver not him?
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Evidence that the car was "built around" the other driver? That's trotted out a lot, but there's neither technical Evidence in the public domain nor confirmation from an authoritative human source. That's just one of those tropes that gets repeated ad nauseum.

Indeed, the likes of their detailed suspension layout, the almost motorbike philosophy behind the angled orientation of their wishbones, the aero, its all new and everyone is rushing to copy (except MB, who tried copying but weren't clever enough to make it work in the wind tunnel.) Thats groundbreaking, never used by any team prior to that so can't really be any drivers preference as nomone had experienced it before. It's clever exploitation of physics within the rules, and in the case of the suspension using geometry to gife an i gerent ainti-dive effect that that no one had ever thought of much less even tried before, not an attempt to design a car to specifically suit any one driver.

As much as Red Bull Spice annoys I have to show grudging admiration for him overseeing a team that simply fields a that can be effectively set up to work extremely competitively in any track environment. That's driver preference in the sense that every single driver would give their left nut for a car of their own that can do that.

Mercedes have been accused of that too during Ramilton's reign, yet listen to him moan about the car and how upset he is because the team didn't listen to him (so he says) about the design direction. That's hardly the talk of someone who has had a car built around him.

Fact is that excuse gets aired every time a driver is dominant for more than a year or two, its the excuse the fans hold dear as the real reason their favourite wheelman is a distant second. The real reason is that driver number 1 is simply more talented a driver and has a better understanding the engineering principles behind car set up, not because someone has spent tens of millions doing him a special favour.

We heard it for Schumey, Vettel, Ramilton, Max, and well here is again in the future when the next young thruster dominates and their very likeable but rather lacklustre team mate struggles to match number one consistency.

Set up and tailoring the car to suit the driver is a different matter entirely. Minor differences in seating position and control layout etc can be accommodated, and the same car made to behave very differently. Schumey was famously like Max in liking the car and controls and resultant response razor sharp and hyper immediate, yet Barrichello liked some progressive slop in the controls and response, most partially the brake pedal. That's down to driver preference and willingness/ability to push the limits of car behaviour.

In the case of Perez, as tidy a driver as he is, he's simply not as good an engineer as Max and thus unable to communicate as effectively to his crew, and his synaptic response rarely even peaks at the level Max operates normally. Riccardo is much closer to Max in both regards...or was at his peak.
 
OP
OP
Reynard

Reynard

Guru
In the case of Perez, as tidy a driver as he is, he's simply not as good an engineer as Max and thus unable to communicate as effectively to his crew, and his synaptic response rarely even peaks at the level Max operates normally. Riccardo is much closer to Max in both regards...or was at his peak.

You're missing three key elements here @Drago me old bean.

Money, influence and the ability to play team politics. And they are not unrelated.

And it's not new. Senna, Schumacher Sr and now Max are the best players of this particular "game" as there have ever been. It doesn't matter how good (or not) their driving is, they have the ability to manipulate those around them to do what they want, and don't care on who they step on to get what they want.

The reason they do that is because they don't want to lose their "Golden Boy" reputation and will do anything to keep it. Bottom line is, they're afraid, and fear of failure will make people do things that those of us with a far better defined sense of morality won't do.

As I've said, motor racing is a magnet for some very unpleasant people.
 

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
Mercedes have been accused of that too during Ramilton's reign, yet listen to him moan about the car and how upset he is because the team didn't listen to him (so he says) about the design direction. That's hardly the talk of someone who has had a car built around him.
It's almost like they know he's now in the last years of his career and are possibly building more to suit George.

https://news.sky.com/story/whats-mo...r-eight-season-study-gives-an-answer-12646848
"Our findings are particularly validating for drivers as it shows they do not just drive the cars but also provide valuable input and feedback on the development of the cars

"More skilled drivers improve the return to team technology and vice-versa.
 
OP
OP
Reynard

Reynard

Guru
Thing is though, while drivers might all be posting similar lap times, there's more than one way of getting to the time that's posted on the board.

You only need to watch the BTCC to really see that in action, because there's a lot less aero than in single seaters and so it's much more evident.

Both Ting and Ash Sutton like cars that are very pointy, almost like a go-kart - the back end of Ting's car is lively to say the least, how many times do you see him on three wheels?

Colin Turkington and Dan Cammish like a car that's progressive and relatively neutral in its handling. Those two are the smoothest drivers on the grid.

Jake Hill on the other hand, likes a car where the rear kicks out and he can power slide it through the corners. Heavens, you only have to watch him racing a Ford Capri in historics to see what he does best.

That's the five best drivers in the BTCC for you. And speaking of historics, the Ford Galaxie vs Mini Cooper... The Ford is a rocket ship on the straights, but has a chassis made of blancmange and the cornering ability of an oil tanker. Whereas the Mini has nowhere near the speed and power of the Ford, but it handles neatly and changes of direction are a piece of cake. And yet over a single lap, (of Goodwood) they post a reasonably comparable time.

So there's more than one way to skin a cat. (I can't believe I just said that... :whistle: )
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
Something going on at Silverstone today, can hear them already. If I get the chance I might cycle over and be nosey, as parts of the track are clearly visible from the bridleway.
We were out in the buggies the other year & it started hissing it down so we pulled over & tried to hide under some trees, we could hear these engines screaming we didn't realise we were at the side of Oulton Park, you could see the car through an old archway.
 

Jenkins

Legendary Member
Location
Felixstowe
Something going on at Silverstone today, can hear them already. If I get the chance I might cycle over and be nosey, as parts of the track are clearly visible from the bridleway.

I think they were going to be doing a 'wet weather' test this week on wheel arches (mudguards) to reduce the amount of spray being thrown up into the air reducing visibility.
 
Top Bottom