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Drago

Drago

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Suburban Poshshire
Youre quite right Reynard. Mercedes F1 team principle should have been sacked for their woeful judgement call to persist with a clearely demented design concept. Sadly, unlike football, the likes of Wolff and Marko hold significant financial stakes in their teams and you can't very well sack someone who in in effect a co-owner

It's business, sadly. Sentiment isn't getting any of the teams anywhere at moment in their haste to make ground on Verstappen. Perhaps if they were more calculating we would see a different driver monstering the championship. Nice guys don't prevail in a hyper competitive environment.

De Vries knew what the risks were when he read the original pay cheque. In his position - 10 inches shorter, 8 stone lighter, and able to actually drive - I too would have signed and I'd take the knocks just as stoically as I'd have enjoyed the rewards if it had worked out.

Fingers crossed Ricciardo can give a good account of himself there. If he does that might be bad news for Perez in the longer term, if he doesn't then my concern for him is it might be the end of his own F1 career. Either way a nice guy could potentially get binned off.
 
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Reynard

Reynard

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Chances are De Vries was actually bringing money *into* the team.

And why are they suddenly so enthusiastic about re-embracing a veteran driver who they booted out unceremoniously several years ago, and who, let's face it, has struggled in recent seasons as well. And starting from scratch, mid-season, does no one any favours.

I don't think it's business. It's much more likely there's behind-the-scenes power play between owners, sponsors, management etc going on. Neither Marko nor Horner are being realistic here, but because it's not their arses on the line, they can hide behind unrealistic expectations.
 
Drago

Drago

Legendary Member
Location
Suburban Poshshire
Reynard said:
It's much more likely there's behind-the-scenes power play between owners, sponsors, management etc going on. Neither Marko nor Horner are being realistic here, but because it's not their arses on the line, they can hide behind unrealistic expectations.
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That's what I mean by business. It's shark infested waters. If drivers aren't prepared to acknowledge the reality of that they shouldn't take the pay cheque. De Vries thought the risk was worth the $2,000,000 salary.

We should also remember that Red Bull Spice advised against hiring De Vries, so he can't be accused over this particular firing as he never set up the hiring.

This mirrors my own thoughts quite well...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...th-de-vries-amid-ricciardos-rebuild/10494814/

A bit hard on De Vries, but I'm sure the 2 mill, more than most mortals see in their entire lives, will keep him warm tonight.
 
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Reynard

Reynard

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Drago said:
That's what I mean by business. It's shark infested waters. If drivers aren't prepared to acknowledge the reality of that they shouldn't take the pay cheque. De Vries thought the risk was worth the $2,000,000 salary.

We should also remember that Red Bull Spice advised against hiring De Vries, so he can't be accused over this particular firing as he never set up the hiring.

This mirrors my own thoughts quite well...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...th-de-vries-amid-ricciardos-rebuild/10494814/

A bit hard on De Vries, but I'm sure the 2 mill, more than most mortals see in their entire lives, will keep him warm tonight.
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Nothing new there. Red Bull simply taking the path of least resistance and Helmut Marko being the peanut he's always been.

The only sound bit of business here - if you can call it that - is not offending Honda by kicking out Tsunoda as well. I think at least, they've learned from McLaren that it's not worth pissing off Honda, otherwise four cars won't have an engine.

The drivers can't do anything about a shite car. How about showing some of the technical team the door as well. Oh, sorry, they can't piss off Honda.

As I said, it stinks.

A few years ago, I interviewed a very well-known team boss for a book I was working on at the time (but that eventually fell through), who had been caught in a similar situation where the team sponsors and the engine suppliers were the ones calling the shots, effectively ruining the careers of three of the five drivers the team employed that year, and causing another to contemplate retirement. The only driver who got off scott free in the whole debacle was the one who had personal connections with the upper ups of the sponsors. And who, quite frankly, was the least talented of the lot.

So it doesn't matter how good you are as a driver, it matters who you've got batting in your corner.
 
icowden

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
Reynard said:
Guess they can't fire Tsunoda, because he's probably bringing too much money to the team. It's not as if he's been setting the world alight either. So De Vries gets made the scapegoat for the team's inadequacies.
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Neither of them seem to have family wealth judging by what I can find online. So if any money is following them it's from sponsors
 
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Reynard

Reynard

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Cambridgeshire, UK
Nyck de Vries is a world champion driver, albeit in a different and MUCH more competitive category than F1. The man is quick, tactically aware and more importantly, knows how to race. You suddenly don't become rubbish overnight.

There's far more to this than meets the eye; the atmosphere within the Red Bull establishment has a history of being toxic, with Helmut Marko and Christian Horner largely being the reason for that toxicity, each playing both sides against the middle. It boils my piss when yet another driver has to play the scapegoat to satisfy their overinflated egos. A bit like Roman Abramovich hiring and firing managers at whim.

Good luck to the Honey Badger in sticking his head in that particular bear pit again. I just pray he finishes the season with all his parts and pieces still intact.

Alas, motor racing always has been, and always will be a playground for some very unpleasant people who do not care upon who they trample in order to get what they want. And yes, that also applies to drivers as well, manipulating teams and sponsors in a similar way.
 
icowden

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
Reynard said:
Nyck de Vries is a world champion driver, albeit in a different and MUCH more competitive category than F1. The man is quick, tactically aware and more importantly, knows how to race. You suddenly don't become rubbish overnight.
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I also think that it's harsh to expect a rookie to come into F1, race a car that they have had no input into and the expect them to be as good as, if not better than, their team mate.
 
D

Deleted member 26715

Guest
icowden said:
I also think that it's harsh to expect a rookie to come into F1, race a car that they have had no input into and the expect them to be as good as, if not better than, their team mate.
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But what if your teammate is also rubbish
 
FishFright

FishFright

More wheels than sense
icowden said:
I also think that it's harsh to expect a rookie to come into F1, race a car that they have had no input into and the expect them to be as good as, if not better than, their team mate.
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Behind the scenes he's been a test and simulator driver for several F1 teams , he's no rookie.

Sometimes drivers can't jell with a car and I believe this is the case at AT because the guy does have plenty of raw pace.

Plus, let's face it, he has be shoot .
 
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