Lowest gear too hard!

[Hip Priest]

I have similar problems on hills. The steepest I've managed to get up was 15% and I was exhausted at the top. The options are to change the cassette to add a lower gear, or lose weight and do lots of hill training.

I've chosen the latter.

 

[malcermie]

When I came back to cycling four months ago having not ridden since dinosaurs roamed the earth I found it imposable to get up the hill that runs past Dover castle, can quite see why it was built where it was! I set myself a challenge of getting one lamp post more each time I road it. Within a month I could complete the entire hill while my bike's payload dropped by half a stone and the sixty eight year old power source, i.e. my legs no longer cramped. Hope to change my hybred for a road bike soon and so what new challenges await me.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

So you suggest that to increase someones CV fitness, riding easy on the flat would help? I could ride along at 20mph quite comfortably for many many flat miles and add the square root of zero to my climbing ability.

At no point did I suggest that, in fact I never even came close.

It is far better because a beginner who struggles with hills, is not going to flog themselves to death on the flat, to give them the fitness to go up.

Your heart,lungs and type1 muscle fibre don't give a damn if you ride on the ceiling,on the flat or up 35% gradients. They do care that you are challenging them enough to adapt. The same adaptations can be made on the flat,on the ceiling,on the top of a moving train. If you can't sustain momentum up a hill,that is a CV/muscular issue - not lack of riding up hills. The OP stated, he lacks fitness. In lacking fitness he lacks sustainable output gradient or otherwise.

I don't race time trials. I ride one regularly as part of my training plan / a yardstick for where I'm at vs last month/year.

You don't race TT, but you ride one regularly? I'm not really sure how that is different.

It's nothing to do with flat, up or down. Your original post suggested any form of threshold training to improve fitness. I agreed with this, as it's 100% accurate, but said that the OP would be better served by doing that at lower speeds, on the very thing he's trying to improve on (hills), than higher speeds somewhere completely different. It's not tough to grasp that concept.

Really? So riding a hill slowly and placing very little stress on your CV system is better than riding hard on the flat and stressing your CV system? Stress which leads to adaptations in an area the OP admitted to lacking ie:fitness???? Do you not know how the body works?

I don't have a sub 40 resting HR because I climb hills slowly.

If you choose to resolutely ring fence where you find fun in your life, cool. This is a beginners thread. I'm not going to tell the guy he can't dare to have fun until he's raised his VO2 Max, and trained to within an inch of his life. There are areas for that, but this isn't one of them.

Beginners or not. Information should be clear and correct.

 

[adamangler]

I'm interested to know why riding slow up hill at max effort is different to riding on flat at max effort in terms of cv fitness? Shouldn't both train my cv system equally? I.e at my threshold?

 

[cyberknight]

Arguably the greatest climber is history is Richard Virenque.
according to wiki he is 1.79m tall and weighs 65kg
enough said!

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he climbed well but was also on the lance program of artificial aids

 

[Scruffmonster]

Really? So riding a hill slowly and placing very little stress on your CV system is better than riding hard on the flat and stressing your CV system? Stress which leads to adaptations in an area the OP admitted to lacking ie:fitness???? Do you not know how the body works?

Ach, I can't be bothered with the rest. You seem to be struggling with the point.

Riding up a hill slowly can yield the same CV effort as riding fast on the flat. You obviously have a reasonable understanding of how the body works so you can accept that.

I'm quite obviously not advocating Granny Ring and 3mph up hill now am I? I'm comparing like with like.

- I can be broken, dying on my handlebars at 10mph uphill. The Speed is slow, the effort is high.
- I can be happy and whistling, at 20mph on the flat. The speed is high, the effort is low.

To me, the best prescription for a person who's symptoms are 'Can't climb hills' is... climb more hills. I'm not going to send them out thrashing themselves on the flat. I know they could get the same CV gains (and indeed acompanying weight loss and/or muscle gains) from doing so, it's just a lot more work (in terms of how far you will travel in that time, interactions with traffic etc).

1 hill, 3.2 Miles long, 6.7%, 25 Minutes to climb at 80% effort.
1 ride. 25 Minutes. 80% effort. 10.5 Miles covered (@ an arbitrary 25mph average).

It's a huge ask for a beginner to ask them to flog themselves for 10 Miles, it just is. Generally, they'll back off at the first sight of tiredness. This does not happen on hills. You can't roll a little, there is no coasting, there is getting to the top, or stopping.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Ach, I can't be bothered with the rest. You seem to be struggling with the point.

Quite the opposite.

Riding up a hill slowly can yield the same CV effort as riding fast on the flat. You obviously have a reasonable understanding of how the body works so you can accept that.

No it can't in the same way riding slowly on the flat can't.

I'm quite obviously not advocating Granny Ring and 3mph up hill now am I? I'm comparing like with like.

- I can be broken, dying on my handlebars at 10mph uphill. The Speed is slow, the effort is high.
- I can be happy and whistling, at 20mph on the flat. The speed is high, the effort is low.

Indicative of lack of fitness really. Low effort = low stress - little to no adaptation - little to no improvement.

To me, the best prescription for a person who's symptoms are 'Can't climb hills' is... climb more hills. I'm not going to send them out thrashing themselves on the flat. I know they could get the same CV gains (and indeed acompanying weight loss and/or muscle gains) from doing so, it's just a lot more work.

You're right. The first thing you do with people who don't like heights, is send them up a ladder.

It's a huge ask for a beginner to ask them to flog themselves for 10 Miles, it just is. Generally, they'll back off at the first sight of tiredness. This does not happen on hills. You can't roll a little, there is no coasting, there is getting to the top, or stopping.

Yet here you are, sending a beginner who lacks fitness up a hill!

 

[adamangler]

Ok. So my understanding is I can train on either. But I like what scruffmonster is saying, its easier to slack off on the flat, or at least its easier to set the goal of reaching the summit.

 

[cyberknight]

I think a beginner should be just getting out there and riding , do not worry about it too much and just enjoy.
The rest will come with time and practise.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Ok. So my understanding is I can train on either. But I like what scruffmonster is saying, its easier to slack off on the flat, or at least its easier to set the goal of reaching the summit.

If you want to ride hills slowly go ride hills slowly. If you want to ride hills fast, and ride flat fast - ride fast/hard and challenge your CV system. Stress is rewarded with adaptation, you don't get anywhere tickling the pedals and stopping to smell flowers.

 

[simmi]

I love TMHNET.
When ever I read a thread he has posted on I admire his 100% conviction that everything he says and does is right.
As you have found out before Scruffmonster you might as well tell the sun not to shine as argue a point with him.
I am not criticizing TMHNET in anyway, I think his single minded belief and 100% commitment make him a great athlete and without it he would be diminished.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I love TMHNET.
When ever I read a thread he has posted on I admire his 100% conviction that everything he say and does is right.
As you have found out before Scruffmonster you might as well tell the sun not to shine as argue a point with him.
I am not criticizing TMHNET in anyway, I think his single minded belief and 100% commitment make him a great athlete and without it he would be diminished.

It may well be because I generally have some form of a clue about things when I post.

PS: Did you ever find the 12lb you were looking for? Perhaps Scruffmonster's magic BMI/BF scales could help.

 

[Scruffmonster]

If you want to ride hills slowly go ride hills slowly. If you want to ride hills fast, and ride flat fast - ride fast/hard and challenge your CV system. Stress is rewarded with adaptation, you don't get anywhere tickling the pedals and stopping to smell flowers.

Yet here you are, sending a beginner who lacks fitness up a hill!

Define 'Hills, fast'. I think it's this that you're struggling with.

 

[simmi]

It may well be because I generally have some form of a clue about things when I post.

PS: Did you ever find the 12lb you were looking for? Perhaps Scruffmonster's magic BMI/BF scales could help.

No still looking

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Define 'Hills, fast'. I think it's this that you're struggling with.

Riding up a hill slowly can yield the same CV effort as riding fast on the flat. You obviously have a reasonable understanding of how the body works so you can accept that.

After you.