Lowest gear too hard!

[totallyfixed]

So coming from a mountain bike to a cx bike which im riding on the road....

Today for the first time i did a fair bit of climbing and i just couldnt spin the lowest gear ratio on my bike, really struggling to get up the hills and it hurt my knees mashing the hard gear, i had to get out of the saddle a lot, just dont have enough fitness to climb.


So my question is, what to do? how would you train to be able to climb better, should i continue pushing a hard gear on the turbo trainer or work on spinning?

I dont really know what im asking, i just want to be able to climb without my legs stalling!

Most of the answer is right there, however once you are fit [and there are degrees of fitness] there are still good climbers and not so good climbers. It is a big mixture of genetics which determines morphology, physiology and not a small amount of psychology, added to all that [and I'm not getting into a discussion about this] there is technique.
This is a beginners thread and I respect that few want an over complicated answer, so I would just say keep working at it and try to look at hills in a different way, learn to like them and when you get on one try for a comfortable rhythm that you can match to your breathing, enjoy. Oh and being out of the saddle is not an offence.

 

[simmi]

Arguably the greatest climber is history is Richard Virenque.
according to wiki he is 1.79m tall and weighs 65kg
enough said!

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[billy1561]

of course weight plays a part in performance - especially uphill, but at 110kg you are either 7ft tall, or you are carrying significantly too much of it. If you are overweight, then reducing your weight will obviously improve your power/weight ratio.

Yep, absolutely too heavy at just over 6 foot. I know this and have made efforts to lose the excess. Was 122 kg a year ago so heading in the right direction albeit slowly. Still don't fully understand gearing tho. I have a compact with an 11 28 cassette so in theory i think i should be able to get up some hills with that but as usual the weight drags me back. Gravity eh.

 

[MrJamie]

I don't understand hills and gears whatsoever. I'm roughly 110 kg and can keep up with my mates relatively easily on the flat over any distance. Once a hill is attempted, I'm left for dead. To me that is a weight thing as my mates are at least 20 kg lighter.
My bike is probably the lightest in the group too.

That's just what I'm like, on the flat I'm plenty happy with my pace, but anything resembling a substantial hill and my pace is forced right down. One guy i ride with sometimes is maybe 60kg and the difference is like night and day when we hit hills. I think we'll also tend to drop down gears a lot more, as do loaded touring cyclists when faced with a gradient.

 

[black'n'yellow]

I have a compact with an 11 28 cassette so in theory i think i should be able to get up some hills with that but as usual the weight drags me back. Gravity eh.

The weight is certainly an issue when it's that high, but the other way of looking at it is that you lack the ability to sustain your pace up hills - which is a fitness issue.

 

[cyberknight]

weight is not really the issue - aerobic fitness is.

Now i cant say i agree with black on all his posts but i got to agree with him on this .
Sure a lower weight helps a bit but there are plenty of guys , much bigger guys in my club who climb and roll faster on the flat because they have the time to train .The only training i get is a 10 mile commute each way and about 2 sunday runs a month so i have to maximize what i have .
All i have tried to do is pass on the advice given to me by various sources and the great cannibals quote always resides in my thoughts
"Don`t by upgrades Ride up grades "
Before i trained on my weak areas my lungs were the parts that held me back and now its the legs that the things that scream for rest first.
I am more of a puncheur , ok on shortish climbs but on long drags i do get caught as more powerful riders reel me in and i suffer on the descents as they go downhill faster .As for pushing a big gear i just cant be assed to change down unless commuting as i have to take every opportunity to work on my fitness as i spin a lot on the flat .
All i can do is try to offer advice and that is work on your weaknesses but not at the expense of your strengths .

 

[billy1561]

The weight is certainly an issue when it's that high, but the other way of looking at it is that you lack the ability to sustain your pace up hills - which is a fitness issue.

Yeah i agree with all that. Also my technique could be better i suppose. I used to try and power up hills which was ok on short ones but anything decent caught me out. I've started to go up slowly and steadily recently and that has improved my climbing a little.

 

[lulubel]

Today for the first time i did a fair bit of climbing and i just couldnt spin the lowest gear ratio on my bike, really struggling to get up the hills and it hurt my knees mashing the hard gear, i had to get out of the saddle a lot, just dont have enough fitness to climb.

The part I've highlighted is the most significant for me. Part of the reason it's hurting your knees is probably because your muscles aren't strong enough at the moment to support the joint, and strengthening the muscles (through climbing hills) will help. However, knee pain isn't good, and if you keep on hurting your knees you're in danger of doing long term damage to them.

Unless you're sure it's only a bit of short term discomfort, I'd look at changing your cassette. Changing to a long cage rear mech and a megarange cassette isn't hugely expensive, but will give you a lot more low gears. You can always change back to the original road cassette when you've done more road riding, and your fitness and strength have improved.

 

[adamangler]

It's definitely the lungs rather than my legs. I have quite stong legs. I can squatt over 100kg in the gym. My legs feel fine. But my heart rate was right upvat 170 plus at times.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

It's definitely the lungs rather than my legs. I have quite stong legs. I can squatt over 100kg in the gym. My legs feel fine. But my heart rate was right upvat 170 plus at times.

Great. Useless for cycling though

 

[Scruffmonster]

Hills don't become hard because they point up. Hills become hard when you physically can't turn the pedals fast enough relative to your selected gear. The exact same thing happens on the flat so there is no reason at all to repeatedly climb hills. Why would you? (unless there was a cafe at the top!)

In response to the above, and the previous threshold comment. I completely accept your point, but it's exceptionally hard, and at times dangerous, to ride hard enough on the flat to maintain a decent level of effort. It's a lot easier, and generally more fun, to ride hard at 12mph uphill than it is to ride along at 30mph+ on the flat.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

In response to the above, and the previous threshold comment. I completely accept your point, but it's exceptionally hard, and at times dangerous, to ride hard enough on the flat to maintain a decent level of effort. It's a lot easier, and generally more fun, to ride hard at 12mph uphill than it is to ride along at 30mph+ on the flat.

but it's exceptionally hard, and at times dangerous, to ride hard enough on the flat to maintain a decent level of effort

What?

It's a lot easier, and generally more fun, to ride hard at 12mph uphill than it is to ride along at 30mph+ on the flat.

What about those who live in pancake flat areas? They shouldn't ride hard on the flat because it's dangerous?

Stress = adaptation. If you go out and say good morning to every magpie you pass then you probably aren't riding(stressing yourself) hard enough.

If it's fun you aren't training.

 

[Scruffmonster]

What?


What about those who live in pancake flat areas? They shouldn't ride hard on the flat because it's dangerous?

Stress = adaptation. If you go out and say good morning to every magpie you pass then you probably aren't riding(stressing yourself) hard enough.

If it's fun you aren't training.

I never said people shouldn't. I ride a 7.5m TT at full chat that's on fast, open, A roads.Effectively 4 long sections, 2 flat, two rolling, with the final 1.5 miles uphill. It's brutal.

I wouldn't recommend a beginner to go out and do that. It's not necessary. Riding a bike on the flat to see a high heart rate results in a very high speed, even if you're pushing a big gear. That's not always sensible.

It's far better for someone to go up some hills. (The 'what if' scenario is moot as we know the OP has hills) Speeds are lower, plus you can't cop out. On the flat you can take it easy and ride at 80% but kid yourself that you're pushing. No option on a hill but to put a full effort in.

Don't misapropriate the word 'Fun' either. We're not athletes. 'Training' should be fun. If I knock 10 seconds off my TT time, it was fun. If I get to the top of a brutal climb having pushed all the way and my prize for doing so is a view over a valley, there's my fun. Let's not kid ourselves that we're all striving to meet our absolute potential.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I never said people shouldn't. I ride a 7.5m TT at full chat that's on fast, open, A roads.Effectively 4 long sections, 2 flat, two rolling, with the final 1.5 miles uphill. It's brutal.

I wouldn't recommend a beginner to go out and do that. It's not necessary. Riding a bike on the flat to see a high heart rate results in a very high speed, even if you're pushing a big gear. That's not always sensible.

That's right! You said it was "exceptionally hard, and at times dangerous, to ride hard enough on the flat to maintain a decent level of effort"

Why would anyone be riding a bike hard on the flat to see a high HR? Last time I checked higher output for lower HR was the key to CV fitness.

It's far better for someone to go up some hills. (The 'what if' scenario is moot as we know the OP has hills)

Why is it "far better"?

Speeds are lower, plus you can't cop out. On the flat you can take it easy and ride at 80% but kid yourself that you're pushing. No option on a hill but to put a full effort in.

So let me get this straight. You race Time Trials but state that "but it's exceptionally hard, and at times dangerous, to ride hard enough on the flat to maintain a decent level of effort" So it's better to ride up hills as they are slower?

If it is soo dangerous, why do you do it then recommend something else to others?

Don't misapropriate the word 'Fun' either. We're not athletes. 'Training' should be fun. If I knock 10 seconds off my TT time, it was fun. If I get to the top of a brutal climb having pushed all the way and my prize for doing so is a view over a valley, there's my fun. Let's not kid ourselves that we're all striving to meet our absolute potential.

Leisure should be fun. Training should not be.

 

[Scruffmonster]

That's right! You said it was "exceptionally hard, and at times dangerous, to ride hard enough on the flat to maintain a decent level of effort"

Why would anyone be riding a bike hard on the flat to see a high HR? Last time I checked higher output for lower HR was the key to CV fitness.

Why is it "far better"?


So let me get this straight. You race Time Trials but state that "but it's exceptionally hard, and at times dangerous, to ride hard enough on the flat to maintain a decent level of effort" So it's better to ride up hills as they are slower?


Leisure should be fun. Training should not be.

So you suggest that to increase someones CV fitness, riding easy on the flat would help? I could ride along at 20mph quite comfortably for many many flat miles and add the square root of zero to my climbing ability.

It is far better because a beginner who struggles with hills, is not going to flog themselves to death on the flat, to give them the fitness to go up.

I don't race time trials. I ride one regularly as part of my training plan / a yardstick for where I'm at vs last month/year.

It's nothing to do with flat, up or down. Your original post suggested any form of threshold training to improve fitness. I agreed with this, as it's 100% accurate, but said that the OP would be better served by doing that at lower speeds, on the very thing he's trying to improve on (hills), than higher speeds somewhere completely different. It's not tough to grasp that concept.

If you choose to resolutely ring fence where you find fun in your life, cool. This is a beginners thread. I'm not going to tell the guy he can't dare to have fun until he's raised his VO2 Max, and trained to within an inch of his life. There are areas for that, but this isn't one of them.