Just how bad are drivers, in general?

[Fastpedaller]

The OP about cycle marshalling struck a chord. Many years ago, a friend and I were marshalling at a roundabout at the end of an A-road sliproad. The riders would go along the sliproad, arrive at the roundabout, and make a gentle left to approach the finish line a mile later. There were no problems there; it was quite a simple junction to marshall. During the time there we saw several cases or 'questionable' driving, lack of indication etc, but nothing dangerous until along came one car, and the driver was determined to exit the roundabout by turning left to drive the wrong way along the sliproad (and of course the A-road he would arrive at)! We both spotted what was about to happen, as he lined up the car to achieve the acute angle required. We both leapt into the road waving our flags and he just ignored us and carried on, past the no-entry signs and would have run us over if we hadn't got out of the way. Thankfully no competitors were approaching and we could only guess he turned another acute left and went with the traffic at the other end of the sliproad when realisation dawned. A few weeks later (on the same course) a couple of tandemists decided the heavy rain wasn't conducive to safety before the event started and offered to marshall. They were marshalling at a roundabout when a Mercedes was driven so fast that it left the road and ran into them and (ISTR) one suffered a broken leg. No doubt the 'general public' would see that as a 'cyclists racing are dangerous and should be banned' argument.

 

[Drago]

I've done some marshaling too and decided that the willfully dangerous and idiot behaviour of some car drivers, one of whom ignored a lawful road closure and ran over a mashal and broke his pelvis, combined with the rude and nasty behaviour of a small but vocal proportion of the riders themselves, prompted me to say 'no more'.

Indeed, if I hadn't been representing a particular charity as a marshal two cyclists would have found their teeth put down their throat the way they spoke to me (and I suspect they understood my dilemma and that's why they felt empowered to behave that way at all.)

This reminded me that some folk were born with a penis growing other their forehead and didn't suddenly acquire one due to their chosen method of transport.

 

[derrick]

It’s the cows on bikes with electric prods you’ve got to watch out for.

No its the mooses, (Red Dwarf)

 

[cyberknight]

No its the mooses, (Red Dwarf)

they even have a moose test for cars

 

[mjr]

From memory, it's ca. 11-12 per day here, despite all the 'safety' features on cars.

The safety features are mostly for the occupants, not their victims.

With this in mind, I often wonder why roads are designed with flowing exits and wide curves to allow cars to go faster, whereas cycleways are designed with bottlenecks and chicanes to make cyclists go slower?

Because they know what works. They just choose not to use them for motorists while the cycling lobby is puny and can be overruled.

 

[Alex321]

In our little nation alone they kill 5 and maim 82 every single day, almost all due to willful negligence or recklessness. That tells us all we need to know about how bad they are.

Or how good they are, given we are one of the best countries per million vehicle kilometres.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Or how good they are, given we are one of the best countries per million vehicle kilometres.

"Not as bad as all the others" isn't much of an accolade.

 

[Alex321]

"Not as bad as all the others" isn't much of an accolade.

No, but the numbers really are quite low.

For the UK, the numbvers killed per billion vehicle kilometres is 3.9.

For context, the average car is driven about 8,000 miles per year, so (roughly) 12,000 Km.

So that is a billion km every 83,000 years. So on average each driver will kill somebody roughly every 21,000 years. Or once in every 267 lifetimes (assuming average lifespan of 80).

Or look at it from the POV of Drago's statistic of 5 deaths per day. That is from a population of roughly 60 million. So for each of us, on average, we will be killed every 12 million days. So once every 32,854 years.

Obviously, the ideal would be no deaths at all. But those numbers are not as bad as some would like us to believe.

They have been on a downward trend since 1966, with a blip in 2022 because of a big drop during lockdown. The fall has been flattening out though in the last 10 years or so.

 

[Drago]

Or how good they are, given we are one of the best countries per million vehicle kilometres.

Oh, thats alright then.

Our motoring butchers Bill is nothing to be proud of. Just because Amin killed fewer folk than Hitler doesn't make him in any way more admirable.

These are peoples lives, and the regularity with which people are losing them or having them ruined for the same old predicatable and preventable reasons day after day after day is nothing to gloat about.

If an airliner crashed every month in the UK you'd be first in line baying for something to be done, yet similar numbers die on our roads and you think that our drivers are good? Unbelievable.

 

[brommieinkorea]

Not sure if England (UK) is as bad, but in the USA class D (regular car drivers) drivers are completely incompetent. No knowledge of where the vehicle is positioned, no ability to judge space, speed and distance to merge etc... No knowledge of the laws of the road with respect to right of way etc... Why ? Because the qualification to get a class D is an easy cruise through a residential neighborhood with a tester who has nerves of steel, and a 20 question test that is so laughably easy a 4 year old could pass it.
We allow felons, druggies, and morons to drive. From what I've read, so does the UK. And since there are no repercussions for crimes with a car, anything goes.

 

[Drago]

Driving in the states I found other drivers to be either laid back and chilled so their incompetence wasnt a major issue, or absolute slaveing loons, with little in between.

In the UK the typical driver tends to be in the middle, always pushing the envelope right one the cusp of exploding into idiocy when they come across someone like me who won't speed just to please them.

 

[Alex321]

Not sure if England (UK) is as bad, but in the USA class D (regular car drivers) drivers are completely incompetent. No knowledge of where the vehicle is positioned, no ability to judge space, speed and distance to merge etc... No knowledge of the laws of the road with respect to right of way etc... Why ? Because the qualification to get a class D is an easy cruise through a residential neighborhood with a tester who has nerves of steel, and a 20 question test that is so laughably easy a 4 year old could pass it.

It is much harder to pass a driving test in the UK, with a theory test which must be passed first, and which is not just a 20 questions type of thing. And then a practical test on the road which normally takes close to an hour, and will take in as much variety of road as is available close to the test centre (and legal to drive on for a learner).

We allow felons, druggies, and morons to drive. From what I've read, so does the UK. And since there are no repercussions for crimes with a car, anything goes.

Well there is no intelligence test, but it will be hard to pass the theory test unless you are at least reasonably intelligent.

I see no reason why criminals should not be allowed a driving licence - though it will be taken away for a time if you commit a serious driving offence, or a number of lesser ones. And if serious enough, you may be required to pass another test, and even an extended test.

Drago wuld like to see those banss be imposed for life, but then he doesn't seem to allow for the frailties of humanity.

 

[Vantage]

Drago wuld like to see those banss be imposed for life, but then he doesn't seem to allow for the frailties of humanity.

So would I.
The majority of humans on the planet go through life without inflicting danger, injury or death to others with little or no effort whatsoever. There's no excusing the opposite for a small minority of peanuts without morals.
The driving test isn't hard enough. At the end of the day the user is controlling a mass of steel capable of at least 60mph through built up areas filled with humans with frail bodies. They might as well give drivers a loaded gun upon getting their license.
The scary part of this is that there's no limit to the number of times a person can resit the test!

 

[templehead]

Back in 1970, when I was learning to ride a motorbike, it was generally said that bikers made better drivers. I doubt that is true these days, judging by the atrocious level or riding skill and lack of respect for the highway code demonstrated by the local delivery bods on their motor scooters.

To be fair, they aren't bikers in the sense that it was meant in that context... delivery riders invariably have nothing more than a CBT and a cheap lid to their names. When their lack of training and experience is combined with the need to deliver someone's MaccyDees while it's still hot, they rapidly become a danger to themselves and others.

Others who earn a living from road use have to undergo greater scrutiny than 'normal' road users, yet people are routinely let loose on a moped to deliver food with no licence at all, which has always seemed wrong to me.

 

[Profpointy]

When I did my driving test it qualified me to drive 7.5 ton trucks, tow heavy trailers and drive a minibus. These days it only covers cars so has clearly been dumbed down since then