Driverless Nissan nearly takes out cyclist

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KnackeredBike

I do my own stunts
Don't do it all in one go. Spread the shopping and the consequential load. Book your shopping online and have it delivered...

Look on Mr Money Mustache's website at the people who move ladders, cookers and fridges across town quite comfortably on cycle trailers. If you're able bodied none of these issues are insurmountable - one of my projects for this year is to build a cargo trailer for my own use, and thus dispense with car number 2 entirely.
I did an Ocado delivery once, bloke said he had driven from their depot seventy miles away. Never bothered with that again.

I did actually get a nice bike trailer with a proper ball joint connecting it to the bike. Problem is the roads around here are so poor that half the stuff ended up smashed, squashed, or falling out of the trailer entirely. Also it is sodding heavy to get up even moderate hills. Other than that it worked great.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Our Ocado chap comes about 40 miles from Coventry, but upon chatting to him in depth once it emerged I was at the apogee of a loop of about 20 deliveries. So that's one vehicle doing an 80+ mile loop, or 20 vehicles all doing return journeys and all the pollution, congestion, and human existence wasted - even at our distance the maths still work very well.
 

KnackeredBike

I do my own stunts
Our Ocado chap comes about 40 miles from Coventry, but upon chatting to him in depth once it emerged I was at the apogee of a loop of about 20 deliveries. So that's one vehicle doing an 80+ mile loop, or 20 vehicles all doing return journeys and all the pollution, congestion, and human existence wasted - even at our distance the maths still work very well.
It might be nice to think of it as a "loop" but as everyone has chosen their own delivery time I doubt it is a particularly loop shaped loop.
 
It might be nice to think of it as a "loop" but as everyone has chosen their own delivery time I doubt it is a particularly loop shaped loop.
But they have variable prices for different delivery slots, and also show you "green" slots, when they are already delivering in your area, so they can "shape" customers to the most economical slots.
 
And for all the talk of "programming" it's important to understand that self driving cars won't be programmed with "give cyclist three metres of space", they will have the very basics (road signs etc) hard programmed and the rest will be learnt behaviour
What are you talking about? This makes no sense at all. Are you suggesting that each car will have to "learn" to drive itself? Of course the will be know all the road rules, and much much more about safe driving and many heuristics to decide what to do in every imaginable situation. Compared to building the imaging systems, this part will be a piece of cake.
 

KnackeredBike

I do my own stunts
What are you talking about? This makes no sense at all. Are you suggesting that each car will have to "learn" to drive itself? Of course the will be know all the road rules, and much much more about safe driving and many heuristics to decide what to do in every imaginable situation. Compared to building the imaging systems, this part will be a piece of cake.
Learning to drive is about much more than learning a list of rules and then rigidly applying them. A driver will be picking up loads of information: a car at a junction with the driver looking in the wrong direction, a cyclist glancing behind them, a child straining at a parent's hand towards the road.

Self driving cars will learn these same cues in the way human drivers do, seeing a pattern and recognising that pattern next time. Obviously production self driving cars will have this AI built in from millions of miles of test driving, in future cars will almost certainly network together so that a car in Glasgow may behave differently from one in London just as human drivers do, or for that matter foreign drivers noticeably do.

An easy example would be zebra crossings, it's one thing to know the rules but another to read pedestrians so that you stop when needed, and for that matter don't slow to a crawl when everyone is walking past. Or an accident in front of me where someone T-boned someone at a junction, I had hung back and left greater distance because the driver was clearly a confused old dear hence didn't pile into the back of her.
 
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classic33

Leg End Member
Don't do it all in one go. Spread the shopping and the consequential load. Book your shopping online and have it delivered...

Look on Mr Money Mustache's website at the people who move ladders, cookers and fridges across town quite comfortably on cycle trailers. If you're able bodied none of these issues are insurmountable - one of my projects for this year is to build a cargo trailer for my own use, and thus dispense with car number 2 entirely.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011...y-getting-your-groceries-with-a-bike-trailer/ View attachment 341225
Bikes at work.

Having dropped the old machine off at the "recycling centre", and gone on to pick the new one up a further 3/4 mile away. It was worth it for the looks of disbilief alone.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
It might be nice to think of it as a "loop" but as everyone has chosen their own delivery time I doubt it is a particularly loop shaped loop.
good for him to do 20 odd drops in a dingle tour of duty. Whichever way you angle it, chummy in one van is significantly less miles and pollution than 20 chummies in 20 vehicles making 20 cold starts.
 

DaveReading

Don't suffer fools gladly (must try harder!)
Location
Reading, obvs
Learning to drive is about much more than learning a list of rules and then rigidly applying them. A driver will be picking up loads of information: a car at a junction with the driver looking in the wrong direction, a cyclist glancing behind them, a child straining at a parent's hand towards the road.

Self driving cars will learn these same cues in the way human drivers do, seeing a pattern and recognising that pattern next time. Obviously production self driving cars will have this AI built in from millions of miles of test driving, in future cars will almost certainly network together so that a car in Glasgow may behave differently from one in London just as human drivers do, or for that matter foreign drivers noticeably do.

An easy example would be zebra crossings, it's one thing to know the rules but another to read pedestrians so that you stop when needed, and for that matter don't slow to a crawl when everyone is walking past. Or an accident in front of me where someone T-boned someone at a junction, I had hung back and left greater distance because the driver was clearly a confused old dear hence didn't pile into the back of her.

So every driverless car needs to learn those lessons independently, rather than being programmed on the basis of a pool of shared knowledge about the environment ?

Please tell me you're joking.
 

KnackeredBike

I do my own stunts
So every driverless car needs to learn those lessons independently, rather than being programmed on the basis of a pool of shared knowledge about the environment ?

Please tell me you're joking.
Of course not, they will come out of the factory with a level of AI knowledge built in. But it is inevitable that over time they will network and create a "hive mind" to refine the AI further. Why tap the experience of millions of miles when you can machine analyse billions or trillions.

Apart from anything else after the first few big crashes there will be pressure to amend the programming "so that it can never happen again". Makes sense to build a networking "hive mind" ability in from day one rather than constantly needing to go to the garage for updates.
 
Would just mean when I am doing a family supermarket run I would have to drive five miles away. Can't see many people putting twelve bags of shopping on the back of a pushbike.
Hate to be a spoilsport. But ... how much of your "family supermarket run" ends up in the bin? "The average UK household wasted £470 worth of food."

"Buying-by-bike" means a few more, but much smaller, shopping trips. I'll bet my "bike-shopping" food wastage is a tiny fraction of a "shopper-by-car's"; and know that my "bike-shopping" is a damned sight more interesting, fresh, and varied than a "family supermarket [car] run". Trust me - I won't ride a couple of miles to Leeds Market only to haul back stuff to waste!

Which leaves your suggestion, awkwardly (?), choosing to drive further, to add yet more waste? Ah well ....... :sad:
 
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