COVID Vaccine !

[Ajax Bay]

" NHS - very clear direction to have short notice waiting list available to soak up any 'surplus' at the end of each day."

And is there clear direction who should be on it? Can mortals apply?

Sorry - I should have made that clear. Understand Head of NHS (Sir SS) has said that every centre should have a short notice waiting list available to soak up any unplanned 'surplus' at the end of each day and the people on that list should be from the Group(s) currently being vaccinated, NOT Tom Dick or Harry, even if they live next door (unless they are in the relevant group in which case forename is no obstacle). This seems entirely sensible vaccination centre management but aberrations in a couple of places meant it had to be centrally spelt out.

 

[BoldonLad]

I guess so. My friend said that everyone who had appointments at 11 turned up early and were waved through whereas they turned up at their allotted time. At least the toilets were open.

quite believable. The “early arrivers” caused chaos at our local hub on day one. Some arriving 2 or 3 hours before their allotted appointment time. Not sure if it is sorted now.

 

[Ajax Bay]

The actual source of the story is Israels coronavirus Tsar Nachman Ash. I actually heard the story on the radio - its being reported by lots of different sources. Here's the guardian one - if you dare to stick your blue nose there.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-dose-in-israel-less-effective-than-we-hoped
So its an actual story - not 'The daily mail understands' . Of course you are free to put your opinion and draw your own conclusions (Keep them brief though ! )

Thank you. The Guardian's report seems reasonable. My emboldening.
"Israel’s coronavirus tsar (Ash) has warned that a single dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine may be providing less protection than originally hoped, as the country reported a record 10,000 new Covid infections on Monday." Comment: no causal link suggested: see other reasons later in article (gatherings of 300, we've been vaccinated so we can relax stupidly)
"Nachman Ash said a single dose appeared “less effective than we had thought”, and also lower than Pfizer had suggested [52%]." Comment: I note NO figures. What was the initial "thought" that it was "less effective than"?
By contrast, those who had received their second dose of the Pfizer vaccine had a six- to 12-fold increase in antibodies, according to data released by Sheba Medical Center in Tel Hashomer on Monday." Comment: 6-12-fold increase over what: the average level of antibodies in the unvaccinated population? No sh1t Sherlock. If it was 6 to 12-fold better the level immediately before the second dose, then was the level of antibodies enough before the second dose to offer high percentage (89%) protection against serious illness/death?
Edit: I have subsequently found that the 6-12-fold increase is from the average level of antibodies found in a cohort of the population which had a record of having previously 'had' the viral disease (so had produced antibodies as a result of that)? This is clearly good news: the vaccine works.

Later in the article Israel's PHS head explained/implied why reports of infections after vaccination were not an indicator of the first dose not by itself offering protection: it was because people were ignorantly assuming that a vaccination offered immediate protection: it doesn't, it takes 10-11 days (see the Sheba Medical Center report - 89% - see next post which I shared earlier and repost below). I quote:
"Questions over the effectiveness of the vaccine were raised amid reports that thousands of Israelis were still becoming sick after receiving the vaccine, although the public health services head, Sharon Alroy-Preis, said that in most cases this was because the individuals had not built up sufficient antibodies after being inoculated before being exposed to the virus."

 

[Ajax Bay]

Professor Gili Regev-Yohai, director of Sheba’s Infectious Disease Epidemiology Unit, said that people who received both doses of the vaccine will most likely not become carriers of the virus and will not spread it further due to the high level of antibodies they have obtained.
It is the first indication that a Covid-19 vaccine may stop transmission. By 18 Jan the hospital had vaccinated some 80% of its employees with the first dose - a total of 7,106 individuals - and 4,484 with the booster shot.
“The results of the survey are consistent with Pfizer’s experiment and even exceeded expectations,” she said.
Comment: It's reasonable to surmise that the effects of vaccination with one Pfizer dose will afford similar (but with lower assurance) results (from 11 days to 12 weeks) and also that vaccination with other vaccines (eg Oxford-AZ) will have similar beneficial effect: "stop a human from carrying and transmitting the virus".

Israel’s coronavirus tsar Nachman Ash's messaging, which could be read in variance to this, is to address the concern that the Israeli population are not adhering to prudent restrictive regulations/guidance and so transmission is increasing. This is an issue the UK will have too (maybe everywhere in the free world).

 

[fossyant]

1820 deaths today !

 

[matticus]

quite believable. The “early arrivers” caused chaos at our local hub on day one. Some arriving 2 or 3 hours before their allotted appointment time. Not sure if it is sorted now.

What did anyone expect from pensioners??

 

[Ajax Bay]

As an aside for @kingrollo - I fail to see that your mild ad hominems are useful: they reduce your credibility and distract you from articulacy, perhaps. I am not a Daily Mail reader, nor a fan of the Guardian. I don't know what you mean by blue-nosed, but maybe you saw me at 3am finishing a 400k last October in near freezing temperatures. I have no idea how my share portfolio is doing (but I assume your pension also depends on the success of the UK and the world economy). If have been gratuitously 'rude' to you in some way I do apologise (I have had a look but can't find anything).
Of course it may be you are joking, in which case, do say.
Edit:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/f...d-be-agreeable-even-when-you-disagree.227879/

 

[kingrollo]

Thank you. The Guardian's report seems reasonable. My emboldening.
"Israel’s coronavirus tsar (Ash) has warned that a single dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine may be providing less protection than originally hoped, as the country reported a record 10,000 new Covid infections on Monday." Comment: no causal link suggested: see other reasons later in article (gatherings of 300, we've been vaccinated so we can relax stupidly)
"Nachman Ash said a single dose appeared “less effective than we had thought”, and also lower than Pfizer had suggested [52%]." Comment: I note NO figures. What was the initial "thought" that it was "less effective than"?
By contrast, those who had received their second dose of the Pfizer vaccine had a six- to 12-fold increase in antibodies, according to data released by Sheba Medical Center in Tel Hashomer on Monday." Comment: 6-12-fold increase over what: the average level of antibodies in the unvaccinated population? No sh1t Sherlock. If it was 6 to 12-fold better the level immediately before the second dose, then was the level of antibodies enough before the second dose to offer high percentage (89%) protection against serious illness/death?

Later in the article Israel's PHS head explained/implied why reports of infections after vaccination were not an indicator of the first dose not by itself offering protection: it was because people were ignorantly assuming that a vaccination offered immediate protection: it doesn't, it takes 10-11 days (see the Sheba Medical Center report - 89% - see next post which I shared earlier and repost below). I quote:
"Questions over the effectiveness of the vaccine were raised amid reports that thousands of Israelis were still becoming sick after receiving the vaccine, although the public health services head, Sharon Alroy-Preis, said that in most cases this was because the individuals had not built up sufficient antibodies after being inoculated before being exposed to the virus."

TLDR

 

[lane]

" NHS - very clear direction to have short notice waiting list available to soak up any 'surplus' at the end of each day."

Sorry - I should have made that clear. Understand Head of NHS (Sir SS) has said that every centre should have a short notice waiting list available to soak up any unplanned 'surplus' at the end of each day and the people on that list should be from the Group(s) currently being vaccinated, NOT Tom Dick or Harry, even if they live next door (unless they are in the relevant group in which case forename is no obstacle). This seems entirely sensible vaccination centre management but aberrations in a couple of places meant it had to be centrally spelt out.

Aberrations = mates rates

 

[mjr]

Not ideal but worth the wait. May not have been breaking the rules probably an exemption.

Supporting someone like that is definitely an exemption. Exception 2 charitable work (in this case patient transport) for driver and of course exception 4 medical need for the patient.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

What did anyone expect from pensioners??

What are you getting at there?

 

[Flick of the Elbow]

MrsF just checked with her 88 year old mother, still no news about the vaccine. She’s in touch with another 88 year old registered with the same Edinburgh surgery, they haven’t heard anything either.

 

[nickyboy]

Well something went wrong today. MiL was booked via text for 2nd dose at about 5pm today. Turns up to the centre to find lights out and nobody around. Called GP and they said that all 2nd dosers are being rescheduled

Cue a bit of a convo about how can they not notify cancellation by text if they can advise appointment by text. Dunno the ins and outs but something went wrong. At least she got the first dose promptly I guess

 

[Ajax Bay]

The direction to move to one dose and then a second at the 12 week point was sent out by NHS HQ (passing it on from JCVI) on 31 Dec. So I expect the numbers of second doses given to drop to negligible from this week till mid [Edit: 6] March.

 

[midlife]

Had the date for my second dose 11th March exactly 9 weeks after the first which is the interval my Trust has chosen.