COVID Vaccine !

[Craig the cyclist]

I'm just as scared as you are, primarily because if I catch a serious dose of this I'm dead. No if or maybe. Dead.

Well, as scared as you may be, you don't actually know this. If it was possible to define this would such accuracy, things would actually be easier.

My work will now want me back in a classroom full of students. And I'll have to find a way to manage it.

Or find another job maybe? It's not the government that is making you go back, the advice to work from home is being lifted but it isn't an order. You also have to remember that as much as people are nervous of going back in, there are just as many people for who the isolation has been as very damaging.

 

[Deleted User]

What you doing risking your life taking your kid to bike races then?

 

[Andy in Germany]

“I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation." – Women’s Own, 31 October 1987.

Thanks, I couldn't find the complete quote last night. It illustrates the problem described above. Footy Fan wants the entitlements but isn't willing to take responsibility, and ironically, he's the embodiment of Thatcherism.

 

[Andy in Germany]

You don't take responsibility for nobhead, he takes what he sees as responsibility, you take what precautions you see as sensible.

That sounds reasonable untill you apply it to other situations: I can take all the prectutions I like when cycling, but if someone else decides speed limits are overcautious and steams through the town at 200km/h the likelihood of that driver killing me is much higher. Just because it isn't
inevitable that they will kill other people, doesn't mean it isn't stupid and irresponsible.

 

[winjim]

A bit dramatic don't you think?

Once again you manage to display an almost complete lack of empathy. May I ask what you have done, above and beyond that which is legally required, to try and help us as a society beat this virus?

I've said before it's people's perception of fear and what they've been doing through all this, why haven't your kids seen their Grandparents for example?

There's a deadly virus.

Why have you kept your kids off school?

There's a deadly virus.

I assume you and their Grandparents have had both jabs by now?

Vaccines are not 100% effective, they are of uncertain effectiveness against some variants, there may be novel, as yet unknown variants and the purpose of vaccines is to build a level of immunity within a population rather than necessarily to protect the individual and the children are as yet unvaccinated. That said, the children have recently started to see their grandparents, but there was a substantial period of time when they didn't.

Plus, you can just carry on doing what you've been doing anyway.

Stay in, wear masks, keep them off school etc etc

Masks are not 100% effective and their purpose is to protect the population and not necessarily the individual. I hope that people will carry on wearing them but I have no power to make them. We can't afford to keep the kids off school. It would mean one of us having to home school them so giving up their job which would mean we would have to sell our home and move somewhere cheaper.

Why the panic?

There's a deadly virus which requires action at the community level rather than by individuals if we are to overcome it.

 

[Andy in Germany]

We have to stop being selfish and take responsibility, so here's an example of a bloke doing the exact polar farking opposite of that.

Give me strength.

Why isn't it a requirement to have evidence of a negative test? We can get a test for ourselves, but if we want to do something that requires us to be tested first then we have to get a stamp showing where and when we were tested.

 

[winjim]

Why isn't it a requirement to have evidence of a negative test? We can get a test for ourselves, but if we want to do something that requires us to be tested first then we have to get a stamp showing where and when we were tested.

It's entirely possible that your government actually cares whether you live or die.

 

[DCLane]

Well, as scared as you may be, you don't actually know this. If it was possible to define this would such accuracy, things would actually be easier.


Or find another job maybe? It's not the government that is making you go back, the advice to work from home is being lifted but it isn't an order. You also have to remember that as much as people are nervous of going back in, there are just as many people for who the isolation has been as very damaging.

I don't know it Craig, but my doctor's stated so and put me on the vulnerable list. I'll not share my medical history but I'm high risk.

We'll sort the job issue: if I'm back in the classroom I'll have a face covering and keep distance. They're a decent employer and I won't be the only one at risk.

What you doing risking your life taking your kid to bike races then?

I get him there, he does sign-on, warm-up, etc outside and I watch away from others. I have to help him live his life, but minimise risk to myself in the process.

The really difficult bit has been SWMBO working on a Covid ward at times since March last year. Again, we've things in place at home to help manage risk there as well.

 

[winjim]

People are selfish. This is exactly what will happen when restrictions are lifted.

@winjim - thank you for doing the trial. I'm just as scared as you are, primarily because if I catch a serious dose of this I'm dead. No if or maybe. Dead.

I've been careful for 18 months, even when I've been at race events with my son. It's the selfish idiots who now have every reason to do what they like which mean my risk level just went sky-high.

My work will now want me back in a classroom full of students. And I'll have to find a way to manage it.

Do you have no option for remote teaching? I notice that my university, Manchester are keeping all their lectures online. I was fine with that style of teaching although I'm studying a masters in a subject I already work in so it's a bit different to an undergrad degree.

 

[DCLane]

@winjim I've been remote teaching since last February and my university's helped there.

I doubt we'll deliver face-to-face lectures in the future since online delivery saves room space and means large modules won't require multiple lecture slots. Both of those save costs. I'll miss the 'theatre' of lectures, which is difficult to replicate using online delivery.

I can see face-to-face seminars returning, with probably some online delivery, due to student pressure for a typical student experience to return. In my case my OH report means I'll do the online lectures, as I lead the modules I teach on, plus the online seminars and we'll identify a low risk approach in any physical delivery. Some classrooms facilitate distance more easily and my guess is they're the ones I'll be in.

 

[winjim]

Once again you manage to display an almost complete lack of empathy. May I ask what you have done, above and beyond that which is legally required, to try and help us as a society beat this virus?
There's a deadly virus.
There's a deadly virus.
Vaccines are not 100% effective, they are of uncertain effectiveness against some variants, there may be novel, as yet unknown variants and the purpose of vaccines is to build a level of immunity within a population rather than necessarily to protect the individual and the children are as yet unvaccinated. That said, the children have recently started to see their grandparents, but there was a substantial period of time when they didn't.
Masks are not 100% effective and their purpose is to protect the population and not necessarily the individual. I hope that people will carry on wearing them but I have no power to make them. We can't afford to keep the kids off school. It would mean one of us having to home school them so giving up their job which would mean we would have to sell our home and move somewhere cheaper.
There's a deadly virus which requires action at the community level rather than by individuals if we are to overcome it.

By way of an example, family of four, three fully vaccinated, now all positive for Covid.


View: https://twitter.com/johnpavlovitz/status/1412169747865620481?s=19

 

[Deleted User]

It's entirely possible that your government actually cares whether you live or die.

What will you be forced to do differently in 2 weeks time then?

 

[Deleted User]

Once again you manage to display an almost complete lack of empathy. May I ask what you have done, above and beyond that which is legally required, to try and help us as a society beat this virus?
There's a deadly virus.
There's a deadly virus.
Vaccines are not 100% effective, they are of uncertain effectiveness against some variants, there may be novel, as yet unknown variants and the purpose of vaccines is to build a level of immunity within a population rather than necessarily to protect the individual and the children are as yet unvaccinated. That said, the children have recently started to see their grandparents, but there was a substantial period of time when they didn't.
Masks are not 100% effective and their purpose is to protect the population and not necessarily the individual. I hope that people will carry on wearing them but I have no power to make them. We can't afford to keep the kids off school. It would mean one of us having to home school them so giving up their job which would mean we would have to sell our home and move somewhere cheaper.
There's a deadly virus which requires action at the community level rather than by individuals if we are to overcome it.

People like you will never get back to normal then will you?

It's your choice obviously, I'm just glad I'm not as afraid as you that's all.

Good luck.

 

[winjim]

What will you be forced to do differently in 2 weeks time then?

I will be forced to exist in a society in which virus mitigation restrictions have been lifted. I'm not just scared for myself, you know. I'm scared that we're creating a perfect environment in which to evolve and mutate the virus which will have consequences for all of us.

It is, you may be surprised to hear, not all about me.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Well, as scared as you may be, you don't actually know this. If it was possible to define this would such accuracy, things would actually be easier.


Or find another job maybe? It's not the government that is making you go back, the advice to work from home is being lifted but it isn't an order. You also have to remember that as much as people are nervous of going back in, there are just as many people for who the isolation has been as very damaging.

See above: speeding through a built up area doesn't make it inevitable that beople will be killed, but it is still irresponsible.

I'm also in a high risk group: if I cought Covid I could be seriously ill, possibly long term, and maybe unable to work* My risk of dying from it ia also higher.

Telling people to "find another job" isn't practical. Apart from all the difficulties involved, it depends on training and abilities, and earning potential. To expect people to make such a big change this because other people don't wan't to wear a mask or stop watching the football is a bit unreasonable: it's like saying pedestrians and cyclists shoud stay indoors so drivers can drive fast.

*Judging by the comments of those wanting us to stop the lockdown that would make me a 'workshy scrounger'. Funny that.