Coronavirus outbreak

[MarkF]

Always wary of anyone's own site, pushing the ideas of their own.

That's fair enough, we all post what we believe or want to.

But deaths tell no lies, after all the hysteria, it's not an unusual death year. If you asked anybody to look at charts of deaths per annum from the last 5/10/20/30/40/50+ years and pick out a "pandemic" year, they would not be able to do so, they'd be blindly guessing. Have the lockdowns been for nothing? Yes.

 

[classic33]

That's fair enough, we all post what we believe or want to.

But deaths tell no lies, after all the hysteria, it's not an unusual death year. If you asked anybody to look at charts of deaths per annum from the last 5/10/20/30/40/50+ years and pick out a "pandemic" year, they would not be able to do so, they'd be blindly guessing. Have the lockdowns been for nothing? Yes.

Me, I wonder what it is they are trying to promote. Often it's just themselves into the public limelight.

BRI by the way, was opened in 1936, officially in 1937, when the stone laying ceremony had taken place.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

That's fair enough, we all post what we believe or want to.

But deaths tell no lies, after all the hysteria, it's not an unusual death year. If you asked anybody to look at charts of deaths per annum from the last 5/10/20/30/40/50+ years and pick out a "pandemic" year, they would not be able to do so, they'd be blindly guessing. Have the lockdowns been for nothing? Yes.

See millennium bug fallacy.

 

[Unkraut]

But deaths tell no lies, after all the hysteria, it's not an unusual death year.

This is a point I have been making based virologists here, but with the proviso that this won't be knowable until next year. Personally I would be surprised if it doesn't show at least some increase over the norm, especially with the high death rate so far, and of course depending on how things develop in the next few weeks and months.

Have the lockdowns been for nothing? Yes.

Spain, with a very rigid and long lockdown has had more deaths proportionately than the USA (Julian Nida-Rümelin member of German ethics committee tonight on TV). Not something everybody wants to hear. Nevertheless I think lockdown as a strategy is a point of legitimate debate, saying that they have achieved little is premature.

 

[midlife]

That's fair enough, we all post what we believe or want to.

But deaths tell no lies, after all the hysteria, it's not an unusual death year. If you asked anybody to look at charts of deaths per annum from the last 5/10/20/30/40/50+ years and pick out a "pandemic" year, they would not be able to do so, they'd be blindly guessing. Have the lockdowns been for nothing? Yes.

I thought the Ons stats had already flagged up COVID as a cause of excess deaths? Or am I reading it wrong

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511

 

[Blue Hills]

I see the world very much black or white, so it seems to me to draw a clear line. (Although I appreciate for the likes of some, such as @classic33 there can be everyday problems). But there are many who look at the current rules and their "grey" edge and look to use it to their advantage,or benefit, either without thinking or caring about, the impact on the wider population. But I am told by Mrs B to try understand others do not see the world the same way.

There will always be idiots/folks who couldn't give a toss bazzer, even with clear rules. I could quote a few examples of folks wearing but not wearing their mask in places where they should be, but i fear i would end up ranting.

 

[Blue Hills]

That's fair enough, we all post what we believe or want to.

But deaths tell no lies, after all the hysteria, it's not an unusual death year. If you asked anybody to look at charts of deaths per annum from the last 5/10/20/30/40/50+ years and pick out a "pandemic" year, they would not be able to do so, they'd be blindly guessing. Have the lockdowns been for nothing? Yes.

Not having a go but can i ask, why do you think that there have been so many lockdowns of one degree or another, not just in england scotland wales northern ireland but all over europe and the world?

 

[Moderators]

That's fair enough, we all post what we believe or want to.

But deaths tell no lies, after all the hysteria, it's not an unusual death year. If you asked anybody to look at charts of deaths per annum from the last 5/10/20/30/40/50+ years and pick out a "pandemic" year, they would not be able to do so, they'd be blindly guessing. Have the lockdowns been for nothing? Yes.

Can you provide a link to that data please? A quick search online suggests the following for the period 20/03/20 to 18/09/20 (source; Public Health England):

53774 excess deaths with 49903 (92.8% of the excess) being where Covid is mentioned on the death certificate..

The overall number of deaths at the time of the report being 1.23 times that which would have been expected during a normal* year.

*Projection modelled using preceding 5 years data.

https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/stati...ality-in-england-week-ending-18-Sep-2020.html

 

[Blue Hills]

is that posted as a mod or is it a personal post?
I believe in free speech - and believe that the community can be relied upon to counter arguments if they are thought to need countering.
Plenty of posts are made on all sorts of topics without being immediately accompanied by "hard" or "scientific" data.

 

[mjr]

Where does free speech end and disinformation start, though?

 

[byegad]

I've given up trying to educate the Covidiots. As an ex copper friend says you can't polish a turd or educate an idiot.
It is very worrying how many people seem to think it's a conspiracy, that every country in the world is part of, and in being part of this conspiracy, has spent huge sums, damaging their own economy, incurring huge debt, all for some kind of scam against the people.
I trust the scientific evidence presented and am taking great care to not catch Covid and pass it on to my vulnerable wife.
But then the Flat Earthers seems to believe that one, along with the Moon landing was a fake brigade we now have Covid19 is a hoax. No wonder the USA elected Trump, people will believe anything, regardless of science, statistics and the number of deaths. I wonder how many people have bought into all of these conspiracies?
Meanwhile I'm taking off the tinfoil hat and going to have a chat with my mates from Venus, Jupiter and the Sirius system.

 

[mjr]

Don't upset the Flat Earthers. You could tip them over the edge!

 

[roubaixtuesday]

is that posted as a mod or is it a personal post?
I believe in free speech - and believe that the community can be relied upon to counter arguments if they are thought to need countering.
Plenty of posts are made on all sorts of topics without being immediately accompanied by "hard" or "scientific" data.

@MarkF routinely lobs in misleading or false information on Covid and rarely engages with responses.

As countering such invariably involves far more effort than the originals, this easily ends up with a constant stream of disinformation.

Whether the mods do, or do not do anything about this is up to them, but cutting it off would certainly not be any form of infringement of "free speech"; there is no shortage of takers in other places due this kind of conspiracy ideation. Neither cyclechat, nor anywhere else is obliged to publish such if they choose not to.

 

[Unkraut]

I've given up trying to educate the Covidiots.

If you want an example of just how bad this can get, I found an example today on Hitchens' blog (haven't looked this for ages, the following being a good reason for this) from GoodShepherd, who writes:

Various comments here and elsewhere condemn the general public for being subservient and "co-operating" with the lockdown tyranny, but overlook the fact that people are not *willingly* cooperating, for example with mask wearing, they are doing it *only* because they are being threatened in numerous ways.

That's not a theory, because *the fact* is that few people wore masks anywhere until it was legally forced on them, and in bars/restaurants the non-mask wearing was almost 100%.

So, no, you do not have to wear masks in *any* circumstances, unless forced to go to work/school, or you need urgent medical treatment, unless you *choose* to do so, though obviously that restricts your life, but at least *not your breathing.*

Because this is one of the unacknowledged terrors of this forcible masking regime, because if you notice, nobody in professional sport is made to wear masks *while playing the sport*, because clearly *masks interfere with one's ability to breathe freely.*

If this government, that says it "cares" so much about us it's trying to save us all from the virus, actually cared about our health, especially of older people, then it would immediately make mask wearing voluntary for older people or anybody who feels their ability to breathe is restricted significantly by mask wearing.

I would suggest a blanket lifting of compulsory mask wearing on all over 60s, and a scheme whereby people could quickly get *official medical exemption* by a quick review of their medical records establishing they have mental or physical health problems that put them at risk ...

This isn't all of the comment, but it is enough to reveal a level (absence) of knowledge and understanding of the virus that beggars belief. The worst possible thing you could do is stop over 60's from wearing masks, genuine medical conditions excepted.

 

[MarkF]

Didn't I post an earlier table showing the difficulty in locating a pandemic year? I am sure that I did. However, I'll be sure to include links from now on for any figure/% claim.

I am not a conspiracy theorist nor a Covid denier nor an anti-vaxxer. I believe we've hopelessly overeacted, it was what I was frightened of once I saw the Wuhan lockdown. I believe the pandemic was over in June but we continue to try to control another respiratory virus endemic in our society with pointless & destructive policies, policies based on figures that do not stand up. I firmly believe the cure is proving worse than the disease, that is not in any way a controversial opinion.

The opinions in this thread are very much the same, if I respond then I'll end up engaging with multiple posters, all with the same opinion on the same point, so although I don't want to appear to be rude, I've only got one life......

Professor Carl Heneghan (University of Oxfords centre for evidence based medicine)

The ten worst Covid data failures.