Coronavirus outbreak

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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
[...] no idea about social distancing. [...] Cash in hand again just handed over as if it's ok. [...]
That and probably more is not good. However, it was completely missing from the previous post. Neither grass-cutting nor driving a white van has yet been outlawed or even advised against by a minister on a chat show.
 
The death stats for the U.K. have shown another decrease in rate today ( another 434 ) which although is never going to be exactly great news, is encouraging ( if you put your big boy pants on for a moment ). This again points to the degree of lockdown we’re in right now being over the top, as ( given the I.P. of the virus) this means the escalation rate of serious cases must have already had the lid on, before the harsh lockdown started. I await the next government trick / goal post shift in how numbers are derived, in order to justify this overly heavy handed response.

As a slight aside - I don't think the lockdown has hit the death totals yet.
If you say it's 5 days from infection s to symptoms - around 7 days after symptoms you either get well or develop breathing problems - so say 10 days after symptoms you enter the hospital network - and sadly for some 14 days in hospital - you don't make it.

So IMO the effects of the lockdown are yet to relate to deaths - which might be good news (fingers crossed)

But something else has caused the death numbers to fall - maybe they haven't - maybe admin will catch up Tues and weds - or hopefully only the weaker strains are being transmitted...
 
That and probably more is not good. However, it was completely missing from the previous post. Neither grass-cutting nor driving a white van has yet been outlawed or even advised against by a minister on a chat show.
I've heard that the covid 19 affect is making van man turn up on time - and his van more reliable.
 

PK99

Legendary Member
Location
SW19
Can somebody produce a graph showing the available vaccines for seasonal flu v the available vaccines for covid 19?


Seasonal Flu: some vaccines of variable effectiveness and different uses across age groups

Covid-19 No vaccine of any form and none expected with a year

Will that do? Sorry its not a graph.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
The fall out from this is everyones problem. The time for being all nice about has gone.
OK then, I'll put this less nicely: stop farking spreading disinformation.

It should be pretty clear just who I mean clearly you just want to pick holes.
Basic simple accuracy is not picking holes.

You're doing no favours by trying to find anyway possible to bend the rules.
I'm not bending the rules. I'm following the rules, but the actual rules and not some imaginary ones made up by angry forum people.

I mean, I'm irritated by what's usually an hour trip to a pharmacy taking 2½ hours today, but that's a mixture of rules and (IMO) mismanagement, but let's cut them some slack because it's very difficult times.

If you don't care or don't get it then fine just don't expect the ones who's job it is care to care for you.
Sadly she and 1000's of others will even if it means they maybe the ones who end up paying a high cost for doing it.
I do care and remember, I've at least two fairly close relatives working in the NHS and two very close working on essential related services but the farking misinformation being spread helps no-one. In fact, it even puts them at risk because idiots hurl abuse at them for disobeying the misleading "stay at home" instruction as they go to/from work - how long before someone goes that bit further and assaults one of them? I could ride one way with one of them and return home as my daily exercise (because people hesitate to pick fights with a tall guy wearing black and a skull-print mask), but then even she's still got to get home - and there's all her colleagues. Aren't you at all worried for your wife if this "stay at home" no-exceptions myth does catch on?

So please, I beg you, stick to the real rules. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/made
 

roubaixtuesday

self serving virtue signaller
This again points to the degree of lockdown we’re in right now being over the top, as ( given the I.P. of the virus) this means the escalation rate of serious cases must have already had the lid on, before the harsh lockdown started

Admirable as your ability to hold strong opinions with absolute certainty is, this does beg a few questions:

1) What is the average incubation period from infection to symptoms?

2) what is the average period from symptoms to hospitalization

3) what is the average period from hospitalization to death?

4) How long does it take to report deaths?

5) How noisy is the data from day to day,?

6) How have weekends affected reported numbers in the last couple of weeks?

In reality, it is too soon to see what effect the lockdown has had yet judged by deaths. Hospital admissions appeared to spike yesterday I understand which is bad news. Time will tell, evidence from other countries suggests we should maybe start to see clearer evidence in a few days time. Here's hoping.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
No disrespect to you or him but window clearing is not essential at the moment.
No disrespect to you but that doesn't seem correct: the law clearly says that "upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household" is permitted. Window-cleaning businesses have not been closed so people who are not physically able to clean their own windows are not yet legally compelled to see the mostly-off-limits world through a layer of filth. :cursing:
 

roubaixtuesday

self serving virtue signaller
Some more reality for those here, incredibly *still* downplaying the seriousness of the virus and comparing to flu.

The Chair of New York City Council health committee:

It’s not just deaths in hospitals which are up. On an average day before this crisis there were 20-25 deaths at home in NYC. Now in the midst of this pandemic the number is 200-215. *Every day*.

Soon we'll start “temporary interment”. This likely will be done by using a NYC park for burials (yes you read that right). Trenches will be dug for 10 caskets in a line.


Full Twitter thread:


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkLevineNYC/status/1247155196234522625
 
I don't think there's much evidence of significant difference between strains of the virus yet?
No - it was just a suggestion as to lower deaths reported over the past couple of days.

The strain doesn't actually get weaker - but a milder case of CV is more likely to be transmitted because it doesn't floor the host.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Belgian (rtbf) news: more discharges than admissions again but a new high of deaths, government requisitions university labs to start producing testing kits (pic), controversy as police not handling covid-19-related child custody disputes well, Brussels Airlines shutdown extended (pic), case of covid-19 in a worker at a fresh produce warehouse of Carrefour (pic) with concerns for public safety and workers complaining about PPE and procedures, delays in deciding the fate of various summer festivals, mask/scarf-wearing compulsory in two Italian regions now, QE2's speech and Boris's hospitalisation, and a new lockdown kids educational TV show starts: "Y'a pas école" ("There's No School")
 

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SpokeyDokey

67, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
No disrespect to you but that doesn't seem correct: the law clearly says that "upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household" is permitted. Window-cleaning businesses have not been closed so people who are not physically able to clean their own windows are not yet legally compelled to see the mostly-off-limits world through a layer of filth. :cursing:

I share your frustration on this misunderstanding by a good number of people.

To be fair the media has had a hand in misreporting, with subtle wordplay that is either intentional or not (who can tell?), the restrictions.

The basic legislation for 'white van man' and others is contained in the relevant Statute at 6 (2) (f) here;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/made

Restrictions on movement
6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—


(a)to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies for those in the same household (including any pets or animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons and supplies for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the household of a vulnerable person, or to obtain money, including from any business listed in Part 3 of Schedule 2;

(b)to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;

(c)to seek medical assistance, including to access any of the services referred to in paragraph 37 or 38 of Schedule 2;

(d)to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006(3), to a vulnerable person, or to provide emergency assistance;

(e)to donate blood;

(f)to travel for the purposes of work or to provide voluntary or charitable services, where it is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the place where they are living;

etc (other points not quoted as they go on too long.

***

Furthermore:

Boris's letter to the populace also includes this line:

You can travel to and from work but should work from home if you can.

***


And Gov.UK advice published 29.03.20 contains this advice:

1. When am I allowed to leave the house?
You should only leave the house for very limited purposes:

  • shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible
  • one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household
  • any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid or escape risk of injury or harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person
  • travelling for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home
***

Additionally, this advice comes with the explicit caveats that the 2m separation rule must be adhered to at all times and the person going to work, and any other persons at the place of work, must not have CV or display any CV symptoms that may be CV.
 
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marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
(f)to travel for the purposes of work or to provide voluntary or charitable services, where it is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the place where they are living;

Really fascinating that it includes charitable services as I did not know that.

There is very little of that going on btw, it's all telephone, I was just very curious. Also suggests travel to somewhere with equipment to do on-line is permissible in rare circumstances. It's not a factor as everything's got pulled, but nevertheless interesting.
 

tom73

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
No disrespect to you but that doesn't seem correct: the law clearly says that "upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household" is permitted. Window-cleaning businesses have not been closed so people who are not physically able to clean their own windows are not yet legally compelled to see the mostly-off-limits world through a layer of filth. :cursing:

Clearly you need every thing in black and white and unless it is you can't see past it. Morally I don't need the law to tell me what's right and I think over the 4000 plus and counting recent bereaved families don't need it spelling out to them either.
 
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Eziemnaik

Über Member
But that's at best second class health care system there in US so it is not a surprise it is being overwhelmed :whistle:
Some more reality for those here, incredibly *still* downplaying the seriousness of the virus and comparing to flu.

The Chair of New York City Council health committee:

It’s not just deaths in hospitals which are up. On an average day before this crisis there were 20-25 deaths at home in NYC. Now in the midst of this pandemic the number is 200-215. *Every day*.

Soon we'll start “temporary interment”. This likely will be done by using a NYC park for burials (yes you read that right). Trenches will be dug for 10 caskets in a line.


Full Twitter thread:


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkLevineNYC/status/1247155196234522625
 
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