Coronavirus outbreak

[tom73]

What's wrong with that? Council grass-cutters are still working here. Stuff hasn't stopped growing because of a pandemic.

Don't tell me things have not stoped growing I know that better than most.
As unlike the 2 cowboys in a van when I did the same job i was both qualified and signed up with the taxman.
What wrong right well
Next door are in an at risk group as are 2 other neighbours close to her.
They don't need 2 to do the job , they clearly had no idea about social distancing.
Just who else are they going to and just carrying on as if nothing is happening ?
They are not going it at for free they get paid. Cash in hand again just handed over as if it's ok.
Council grass cutting is down to the LA I doubt they just rack up in a van and go door to door.
Exposing lord knows who to a totally unnecessary risk.

 

[tom73]

You do no-one any favours pushing that unrealistic message. Some must go out to work, building medical kit or delivering other essentials. Others must go out because of the collapse of delivery services under the strain of increased demand. Yet more must go out for life-sustaining exercise. Implying that any of these are because they "can't be bothered" is offensive and unhelpful. Please stick to promoting the rules, not an incorrect simplified message, and concentrate your fire on those breaking the rules, like leaving isolation early, shaking hands or weekending in holiday homes - and maybe stuff done by people not in the governments too!

The fall out from this is everyones problem. The time for being all nice about has gone.
It should be pretty clear just who I mean clearly you just want to pick holes.
You're doing no favours by trying to find anyway possible to bend the rules.
I will direct the fire as you put it to who I like. I'm sick of seeing people who are clearly just taking the pee.
It's not a lot to ask that as my wife approaches her 20 years in Nursing it won't be her last.
If you don't care or don't get it then fine just don't expect the ones who's job it is care to care for you.
Sadly she and 1000's of others will even if it means they maybe the ones who end up paying a high cost for doing it.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Interesting from the Graun on the proposed relaxations in Austria.

A single Euro wide app sounds an excellent idea, with my holiday in France still just about possible I guess.

Of course having already put Brexit above breathing on ventilators, the likelihood of HMG taking part is low.

The Austrian exit strategy will also include the introduction of tracking apps to trace citizens’ movements and ensure they are not breaking curfew rules. They should be used by the whole of the country. Those who don’t have a mobile phone will be required to wear a special key-ring style device, the chancellor said at the weekend. The majority of Austrians are said to be in favour of the measures.

In Germany, the Robert Koch is developing a similar app to that due to be introduced in Austria. It is being developed in conjunction with a European app which 130 researchers are currently developing, and will warn people if they might have had contact with infected persons. Its use is expected to be anonymous and voluntary, although surveys show a large number of Germans are prepared to use it if it leads to a relaxation of lockdown rules. The ultimate aim should be to have a single, Europe-wide tracking app.

 

[icowden]

It was a question

A bit late to answer it but the simple answer is that nipping behind a bush tends to be a very clean operation for most gents, as compared with the tribulations that ladies must face. It's a point, shoot, shake and away and no different for a bloke than touching any other area of skin on the body (usually). Hand sanitiser is obviously a useful addition to the repertoire.

Before the lockdown there was puzzlement in theatres etc that there were suddenly long queues for the gents - when usually there are none. The reason was that everyone was now hand washing.

 

[icowden]

The fall out from this is everyones problem. The time for being all nice about has gone.
It should be pretty clear just who I mean clearly you just want to pick holes.
You're doing no favours by trying to find anyway possible to bend the rules.

It's not always clear cut though. For example our window cleaner is a hard worker, out in all weathers and cleaning windows is his sole source of income to support his family. Should we tell him not to clean the windows? If he's outside and we are inside, that's maintaining a safe distance. And the cash can be left on his windscreen for him to pick up. Or is it better to be absolutely safe and make him solely reliant on benefits if he can get them?

 

[tom73]

It's not always clear cut though. For example our window cleaner is a hard worker, out in all weathers and cleaning windows is his sole source of income to support his family. Should we tell him not to clean the windows? If he's outside and we are inside, that's maintaining a safe distance. And the cash can be left on his windscreen for him to pick up. Or is it better to be absolutely safe and make him solely reliant on benefits if he can get them?

Can understand why he want's to keep going and not let anyone down. I'd feel the same with many of my old customers.
But who else is he visiting and who else is he interacting without? Some of his other customers may well be at risk.
No disrespect to you or him but window clearing is not essential at the moment.
Only he can way up the risk of carry on both personally and financially. But equally it's not one that can be taken in isolation either others are at risk from him and equally he at risk from them. If he is the only bread winner then he's no good to them being off sick or even worse.

 

[IaninSheffield]

Interesting those graphs don’t break them both down into the same age brackets.

I think that's because the source data was compiled with different age brackets

I've found some of the visualisations produced recently, by various bodies, to be rather troubling. An uncritical or inexperienced eye might fail to identify the kinds of anomalies you identify. Some (many?) lack the acuity needed to intepret complex data presented in apparently simple way - what proportion of the population understand the implications of a logarithmic or other non-linear scale for example?

 

[Adam4868]

Can understand why he want's to keep going and not let anyone down. I'd feel the same with many of my old customers.
But who else is he visiting and who else is he interacting without? Some of his other customers may well be at risk.
No disrespect to you or him but window clearing is not essential at the moment.
Only he can way up the risk of carry on both personally and financially. But equally it's not one that can be taken in isolation either others are at risk from him and equally he at risk from them. If he is the only bread winner then he's no good to them being off sick or even worse.

I get your points and the risks involved but you do know some people have to still earn a living if they can.
I went to a job last week bit of rendering and repointing a garden wall,two of us (my son he did nowt !) Click and collect sand and cement from builders yard paid online.Woman left extension lead through window and money in envelope.
All in all I had less contact/closeness to people than going to Lidl yesterday.
Forgot to add I pay tax like everyone else 😁

 

[marinyork]

I've found some of the visualisations produced recently, by various bodies, to be rather troubling. An uncritical or inexperienced eye might fail to identify the kinds of anomalies you identify. Some (many?) lack the acuity needed to intepret complex data presented in apparently simple way - what proportion of the population understand the implications of a logarithmic or other non-linear scale for example?

A high proportion of the population understand.

Unfortunately the government rather being like the great and the good of cyclechat and add on extra factors on top think the population is rather a lot dumber than they really are, don't up their game to produce better graphics and explanations.

 

[oldwheels]

"total lockdown" isn't the impression I've got from the news and @steveindenmark

Mebbe just different interpretations. My sister in law who lives in Copenhagen thinks it is pretty near total lockdown.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Now the "white van" men have turned up next door to cut the grass.
Just what's wrong with people?

As long as they are maintaining the 2m separation distance and neither they or the home owner has CV or CV symptoms then they are not breaking the law.

Edit: if the two of them come from the same household then they are within the law as well.

 

[PK99]

I'm not in any way attempting to downplay the seriousness of this pandemic, but how would "conventional" flu stack up in your assessment above? It kills, on average, 17,000 UK inhabitants a year. Some people get a sniffle, some people die. Some people get it and never know. Is there a fundamental difference between it and Corona virus?

Yes. Even without a vaccine for flu, it is spread over months. Corona virus could rip through more than half the population in a few weeks.

There were suggestions that the EXCESS deaths over the year will be far less dramatic than the current headlines suggest. Essentially, for many the virus concentrates annual probability if dying into a few weeks.

The difference and issue remains overwhelming health services in the short term.

 

[icowden]

Well, usefully we can study America as Trump has gone for the "just die already" strategy.

 

[Racing roadkill]

The death stats for the U.K. have shown another decrease in rate today ( another 434 ) which although is never going to be exactly great news, is encouraging ( if you put your big boy pants on for a moment ). This again points to the degree of lockdown we’re in right now being over the top, as ( given the I.P. of the virus) this means the escalation rate of serious cases must have already had the lid on, before the harsh lockdown started. I await the next government trick / goal post shift in how numbers are derived, in order to justify this overly heavy handed response.

 

[kingrollo]

Yes. Even without a vaccine for flu, it is spread over months. Corona virus could rip through more than half the population in a few weeks.

There were suggestions that the EXCESS deaths over the year will be far less dramatic than the current headlines suggest. Essentially, for many the virus concentrates annual probability if dying into a few weeks.

The difference and issue remains overwhelming health services in the short term.

Can somebody produce a graph showing the available vaccines for seasonal flu v the available vaccines for covid 19?