Coronavirus outbreak

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Rocky

Hello decadence
Well......have I spoken too soon? The Prof has come up with some research undertaken by the Chinese which says that an ordinary (well fitted) face mask is just as effective as a respirator in protecting against flu virus.....as long as the clinician is wearing eye protection!! There are stories of doctors wearing swimming googles during a consultation.
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
Pubs shut = beer and wine stockpiling by supermarket shoppers.

Certainly yesterday my local supermarket had packed shelves in the booze aisles. I drink maybe two to three bottles of beer a week so not a heavy drinker but don’t think I can be arsed fighting over it in a shop so I’ve taken advantage of a recent introductory offer of 20 cans from Flavourly.com.

Delivery is free and you get two cans of each of ten varieties, a couple of glasses, a snack and a magazine all for under £20.

You are not tied in to a subscription, you’re only buying this single delivery unless you choose to buy more.

If anyone else wants to take advantage of this, go to www.flavourly.com/BGWTW and the offer price will be applied.

(Edited to correct reference to bottles when I should have said cans.)
 
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RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
It's been asked before but does anyone believe the figures from china?
they are saying zero apart from in folk arrived from abroad?
sounds very hard to believe to me.

I understand why you don't believe the Chinese figures, but what about Taiwan, or Hongkong?

If you have been following their status, you would have found that nearly all their last few weeks' new infections were the result of those returning from abroad, and very low until in recent days, when inbound traffic of their nationals has turned into a stampede due to the direction us in the West are heading.

I am not a believer of the 2nd/3rd... wave theory. I think it is going to simmer with minor peaks and troughs continuously for COVID-19 (while all bets are off for any nasty mutation obviously), it will be achieved by increasingly stringent, effective and efficient* border control, until a vaccine is found.

* i.e. quick turnaround for test results - I understand currently it is 24 hours in UK, yet it takes as little as 4 hours in Italy, which undoubtedly will be further reduced down the line.
 
The nearest pub to me (an independent) has a large outdoor area which has lighting which can be seen from Ursa Minor. This was on last night when I passed, so I guess they're still open. I don't know how busy they actually are, but there were fewer cars about.

A silver lining to the general situation is that Tim Martin is pi$$ed off.
I just watched his piece to camera, when did he become an expert? I am flabbergasted.
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
It doesn't surprise me. There's a huge debate going on about the suitability of the PPE (personal protective equipment) that GP practices are being given. This is what has been issued to a frontline nurse:

View attachment 509382
I've seen students walking in the streets in Oxford with better gear.

Edit: Issued to a front line nurse in general practice - just to clarify

That is my kit.^_^ Senior staff have the same but a mask with an attached visor.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
* i.e. quick turnaround for test results - I understand currently it is 24 hours in UK, yet it takes as little as 4 hours in Italy, which undoubtedly will be further reduced down the line.

12 labs + whoever PHE has contracted out to. Lots of driving of samples? This isn't the case in some bits of Italy as I understand from Italian news. Labs relatively close to hot spots.

It can't really be reduced much below four hours as I understand it for logistical reasons.
 

Rocky

Hello decadence
It is compared to Italy. Practically the whole population are wearing ffp2 and ffp3 masks. Rarely eye wear thought. Interesting from a previous post...
And the research says it’s effective against flu virus but we know Corona is different.
 

Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
 

RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
Well......have I spoken too soon? The Prof has come up with some research undertaken by the Chinese which says that an ordinary (well fitted) face mask is just as effective as a respirator in protecting against flu virus.....as long as the clinician is wearing eye protection!! There are stories of doctors wearing swimming googles during a consultation.
I would have thought since droplets can fall on one's eyes, absence of visor/goggle would always put one at some risk, with surgical mask or respirator.

Before generalisation, I think there are a couple of key points in the report that bear careful consideration:

"The reason for the similar effects on preventing influenza for the use of N95 respirators versus surgical masks may be related to low compliance to N95 respirators wear, which may lead to more frequent doffing compared with surgical masks. Although N95 respirators may confer superior protection in laboratory studies designing to achieve 100% intervention adherence, the routine use of N95 respirators seems to be less acceptable due to more significant discomfort in real-world practice. Therefore, the benefit of N95 respirators of fitting tightly to faces is offset or subjugated. However, it should be noted that the surgical masks are primarily designed to protect the environment from the wearer, whereas the respirators are supposed to protect the wearer from the environment."

It has always been clear that respirators require proper fitting (I think medics are retrained annually for such), upon which near 100% seal is possible unless one is hairy, while a proper seal is impossible with surgical masks. I have tried both respirators and surgical masks - I find them equally uncomfortable, but YMMV.

What I find difficult to understand/accept, is how our government seems to discourage people wearing any. Other governments (e.g. China, Hongkong, Korea, Japan e.g.) clearly don't agree, so either they are wrong, or we are.

Whom do you trust?
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
The problem is it causes panic and stockpiling of masks which may have consequences for medics.

Here in a supermarket someone was ejected a couple of weeks ago for wearing a ffp2 as the supermarket thought it'd cause panic.
 

RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
I'd predict a rise in domestic violence, though.

While no more pub fights...

IMG-20200320-WA0015.jpg
 

Rocky

Hello decadence
I would have thought since droplets can fall on one's eyes, absence of visor/goggle would always put one at some risk, with surgical mask or respirator.

Before generalisation, I think there are a couple of key points in the report that bear careful consideration:

"The reason for the similar effects on preventing influenza for the use of N95 respirators versus surgical masks may be related to low compliance to N95 respirators wear, which may lead to more frequent doffing compared with surgical masks. Although N95 respirators may confer superior protection in laboratory studies designing to achieve 100% intervention adherence, the routine use of N95 respirators seems to be less acceptable due to more significant discomfort in real-world practice. Therefore, the benefit of N95 respirators of fitting tightly to faces is offset or subjugated. However, it should be noted that the surgical masks are primarily designed to protect the environment from the wearer, whereas the respirators are supposed to protect the wearer from the environment."

It has always been clear that respirators require proper fitting (I think medics are retrained annually for such), upon which near 100% seal is possible unless one is hairy, while a proper seal is impossible with surgical masks. I have tried both respirators and surgical masks - I find them equally uncomfortable, but YMMV.

What I find difficult to understand/accept, is how our government seems to discourage people wearing any. Other governments (e.g. China, Hongkong, Korea, Japan e.g.) clearly don't agree, so either they are wrong, or we are.

Whom do you trust?
It's a really good point and I gather that's why face masks in the public aren't particularly effective as a preventative measure because they are not fitted or worn properly and people still touch their faces/lips even though they are wearing them.
 
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