Corona Virus: How Are We Doing?

[KnittyNorah]

Leaving aside the C-19 vaccines for now, how do 'anti-vaxxers' feel about diphtheria, yellow fever and smallpox vaccinations? Polio? Measles? Meningitis? How about the tetanus vaccine?

More recently developed, with data continually coming in (which has resulted in it being offered to many more people), is the HPV vaccine.

I would genuinely like to know the reasoning behind opposition to the use of vaccines - any vaccines, and/or specific vaccines - and suggestions for what is, or might be, available that can effectively and practically replace what is offered by these vaccines, other than an improved vaccine - or extinction of the disease, which as we all know has only happened once - with smallpox, and as the result of vaccination itself ...

 

[MrGrumpy]

Yes quite fair enough. I think we are all doing mostly ok now. I predict in the winter we may catch it again with mild symptoms. I don’t think any expert truly knows the future, only time will tell.

So now just mild ? Wonder why that is

 

[classic33]

Leaving aside the C-19 vaccines for now, how do 'anti-vaxxers' feel about diphtheria, yellow fever and smallpox vaccinations? Polio? Measles? Meningitis? How about the tetanus vaccine?

More recently developed, with data continually coming in (which has resulted in it being offered to many more people), is the HPV vaccine.

I would genuinely like to know the reasoning behind opposition to the use of vaccines - any vaccines, and/or specific vaccines - and suggestions for what is, or might be, available that can effectively and practically replace what is offered by these vaccines, other than an improved vaccine - or extinction of the disease, which as we all know has only happened once - with smallpox, and as the result of vaccination itself ...

Whilst not an anti-vaxxers view, there's only the tetanus jab from that list I've been given. Even there I'm looking at over 30 years ago. Like the rest in the list, it's been deemed unsafe to be given to me.* HPV aside on age grounds

The "safer" of the two covid 19 vaccines, available locally at the time, resulted in a trip to A&E.

*I think there's something odd about me, thousands of people get given them every year with little or no side effects. And it's important to remember that there's side effects with every medication used.

 

[Milzy]

So now just mild ? Wonder why that is

Natural immunity & the mutations become weaker over time.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Whilst not an anti-vaxxers view, there's only the tetanus jab from that list I've been given. Even there I'm looking at over 30 years ago. Like the rest in the list, it's been deemed unsafe to be given to me.* HPV aside on age grounds

The "safer" of the two covid 19 vaccines, available locally at the time, resulted in a trip to A&E.

*I think there's something odd about me, thousands of people get given them every year with little or no side effects. And it's important to remember that there's side effects with every medication used.

I think it is fair to say that you are 'the exception that proves the rule'! It's not just thousands, though - it's multiple millions upon millions get given them.
FWIW, I have never had any useful immune response to the rubella vaccination (several formulations of them) and in the early 1980s, had to change my career path as a consequence.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Natural immunity & the mutations become weaker over time.

What reason have the mutations become weaker ?

 

[Milzy]

Leaving aside the C-19 vaccines for now, how do 'anti-vaxxers' feel about diphtheria, yellow fever and smallpox vaccinations? Polio? Measles? Meningitis? How about the tetanus vaccine?

More recently developed, with data continually coming in (which has resulted in it being offered to many more people), is the HPV vaccine.

I would genuinely like to know the reasoning behind opposition to the use of vaccines - any vaccines, and/or specific vaccines - and suggestions for what is, or might be, available that can effectively and practically replace what is offered by these vaccines, other than an improved vaccine - or extinction of the disease, which as we all know has only happened once - with smallpox, and as the result of vaccination itself ...

All the other vaccines are fine. They were tested properly for longer without corruption on approval. Covid vaccines were rushed out & approved for emergency use only. They may work but were massively over rated. What’s the percentage of effectiveness in reality? And does it differ with different people?

 

[Milzy]

What reason have the mutations become weaker ?

It’s trying to stay alive, if the virus kills someone, it kills the host, it dies with the host. So it totally defeats the purpose.

 

[Dogtrousers]

It’s trying to stay alive, if the virus kills someone, it kills the host, it dies with the host. So it totally defeats the purpose.

I think you're giving viruses a bit too much credit for having a "purpose" and "trying".

 

[november4]

I happily had the vaccine and booster, then had mild covid.

Now that I've had it and the virus has naturally denatured, I'll not have another covid booster, unless a bad variant pops up.

I've had the annual flu vac for over 20 years, couple of times the regular flu has escaped the vaccine, and I had man flu (as everyone knows, that's much more serious) 🙃

 

[Andy in Germany]

Natural immunity & the mutations become weaker over time.

This makes sense; it was what was said originally and it does seem to be happening. On the other hand "Long Covid" is a reality and a rather nasty, unknown quantity as yet.

And, again, it affects different people differently and is more dangerous to people with preexisting conditions: My Asthma seems to have reduced as my fitness levels increased but after my experiences with colds I'm treating C-19 with respect.

The doctor here, who is keeping an eye on the Asthma, hasn't recommended me to have a 4th booster. As he puts it "These aren't smarties: we need to respect that too." Instead he says to keep using my inhaler daily and wear an FFP2 mask in public enclosed spaces. I can live with that, although I think I need a black mask because white masks look disgusting quickly with my oily fingers...

 

[C R]

This makes sense; it was what was said originally and it does seem to be happening. On the other hand "Long Covid" is a reality and a rather nasty, unknown quantity as yet.

And, again, it affects different people differently and is more dangerous to people with preexisting conditions: My Asthma seems to have reduced as my fitness levels increased but after my experiences with colds I'm treating C-19 with respect.

The doctor here, who is keeping an eye on the Asthma, hasn't recommended me to have a 4th booster. As he puts it "These aren't smarties: we need to respect that too." Instead he says to keep using my inhaler daily and wear an FFP2 mask in public enclosed spaces. I can live with that, although I think I need a black mask because white masks look disgusting quickly with my oily fingers...

Only, there's no evolutionary pressure for the virus to become less lethal, we've just been "lucky" that the vaccines worked.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Only, there's no evolutionary pressure for the virus to become less lethal, we've just been "lucky" that the vaccines worked.

My understanding (absolutely not "expert opinion") is that this is a common development of viruses simply because they have a fast lifecycle and more lethal strains kill their host before they can be passed on and the less lethal strains don't.

As said above though, this doesn't stop "long Covid" and other nasty non-lethal effects, or danger from pre-existing conditions.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

It’s pointless both side’s arguing the toss now. In 5 or 10 years there’s going to be some seriously huge amounts of data good & bad. Then we will have a clear picture & look back on all this.

The data is here now. Billions of shots have been given. The data on these vaccines probably outweighs that for any other medical treatment already. The risk of covid for the unvaccinated is far higher than the risks of vaccination.

The science and facts are very clear; those "arguing the toss" have nothing to do with that.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Obviously in 5 years there will be more data.

It's vanishingly unlikely that data will emerge which changes the view on safety vs efficacy; there are almost no vaccines ever with significantly delayed adverse reactions.