Charlie Alliston case - fixie rider accused of causing pedestrian death

[glasgowcyclist]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...briggs-cyclists-traffic-bike-charlie-alliston - interesting reading.

I had to laugh at this bit:

"Drivers are rigorously tested and policed,"​

Rigorous my arse.

 

[Dan B]

The testing (as I remember it) was moderately thorough, but the problem is that the habits and standards you are tested on do not seem to be the habits and standards observed by all the other road users you will thereafter encounter while driving.

Policed, yeah, right

 

[growingvegetables]

It may be semantics, but 'incorporation' is not the same as 'partial incorporation' which would be required if you wanted cyclists to only be the subject of the 'death by' offences.

I've no idea if Mr Briggs would be happy for cyclists to be excused compliance with speed limits, in the event of the adoption of widespread lower limits in urban areas.

My guess is he wouldn't, given that speed played a part in the death of his wife.

I think that's a "whoosh", given the realities of the various Road Traffic Acts. Ah well.

 

[Pale Rider]

I think that's a "whoosh", given the realities of the various Road Traffic Acts. Ah well.

@GrumpyGregry proposed a 30kph urban speed limit for cars.

That, strange to relate, is just over 18mph.

It seems unlikley to me motorists will be content to be restricted to 18mph if cyclists are allowed to, er, whoosh past.

A neutral observer might think the speed limit should apply to all vehicles, powered and unpowered.

It's inevitable bicycles would be considered by legislators if they were looking at a widespread 30kph limit for motor vehicles.

 

[growingvegetables]

@GrumpyGregry proposed a 30kph urban speed limit for cars.

That, strange to relate, is just over 18mph.

It seems unlikley to me motorists will be content to be restricted to 18mph if cyclists are allowed to, er, whoosh past.

A neutral observer might think the speed limit should apply to all vehicles, powered and unpowered.

It's inevitable bicycles would be considered by legislators if they were looking at a widespread 30kph limit for motor vehicles.

Hate to be pedantic - but that's not where this started.

You're throwing out straw men. As the dedicated local union rep for the local branch of undefended straw men, I protest. We deserve better.

 

[Pale Rider]

Hate to be pedantic - but that's not where this started.

You're throwing out straw men. As the dedicated local union rep for the local branch of undefended straw men, I protest. We deserve better.

It started when I commented on the proposal for 30kph speed limits, simple as that.

 

[Flick of the Elbow]

As a matter of interest, just what can a pedestrian be charged with for stepping out into the road without due care and attention and causing an accident ? And have there been any successful prosecutions ?

 

[albion]

http://mattirving.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/fixies-worlds-second-most-stupid-form.html

Yet away from the stupidity of the young, lets realise that in a difficult economy, work stress applies to more and more jobs.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/26/several-die-crash-m1-involving-two-lorries-minibus/
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Aim-Logistics/reviews

That is certainly the increasing norm in this current economic climate and governance, a governance that even wants rid of speed bumps in pedestrianised and built up areas.

 

[Shut Up Legs]

http://mattirving.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/fixies-worlds-second-most-stupid-form.html

Yet away from the stupidity of the young, lets realise that in a difficult economy, work stress applies to more and more jobs.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/26/several-die-crash-m1-involving-two-lorries-minibus/
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Aim-Logistics/reviews

That is certainly the increasing norm in this current economic climate and governance, a governance that even wants rid of speed bumps in pedestrianised and built up areas.

How true.
I don't know how it developed in the UK, but in Australia, speed bumps used to be narrow and unforgiving, but after a few decades they evolved into wider ones that are far more gentle to car wheels, and so they have now been rendered virtually useless. Such is the power of the mighty car, all else must be reduced to make way.

 

[srw]

As a matter of interest, just what can a pedestrian be charged with for stepping out into the road without due care and attention and causing an accident ? And have there been any successful prosecutions ?

I don't know about the offence, but the penalty can be as high as death.

 

[Shut Up Legs]

Taking that further, in London we now have some trompe l'oeil speed bumps.

I heard about those. Next they'll modify the illusion based on feedback that it upsets some motorists, then remove them completely.

 

[classic33]

@GrumpyGregry proposed a 30kph urban speed limit for cars.

That, strange to relate, is just over 18mph.

It seems unlikley to me motorists will be content to be restricted to 18mph if cyclists are allowed to, er, whoosh past.

A neutral observer might think the speed limit should apply to all vehicles, powered and unpowered.

It's inevitable bicycles would be considered by legislators if they were looking at a widespread 30kph limit for motor vehicles.

If they swap mph for kph, as done in Ireland, they'd have no choice. It's odd at first entering a 20 zone to find your the quickest thing on the road.

 

[classic33]

How true.
I don't know how it developed in the UK, but in Australia, speed bumps used to be narrow and unforgiving, but after a few decades they evolved into wider ones that are far more gentle to car wheels, and so they have now been rendered virtually useless. Such is the power of the mighty car, all else must be reduced to make way.

Locally:
Speed bumps, "sleeping policeman" style, replaced by slabs with sloping sides that a vehicle couldn't fully straddle forcing a change in speed(or that's what they said). Replaced by speed tables, ramp upto a flat surface at around kerb height.

 

[Flick of the Elbow]

I don't know about the offence, but the penalty can be as high as death.

Yes but not necessarily that of the pedestrian.

 

[srw]

Yes but not necessarily that of the pedestrian.

I'll let you produce the stats comparing number of driver and rider deaths caused by pedestrians compared with the number of pedestrian deaths caused by drivers....